To think that all men watch porn even when in a sexually gratifying relationship ?

[pedestalpony]

Possibly done to death but do they or at least the majority and if so are you ok with it ?
No real back story but have reason to believe that my bf does now and again ... mainly through presumption of women he follows on Facebook ... first six pictures etc.
I know he also games with many men and women throughout the world through that platform so he has many' friends' from that..
He doesn't like or comment on the women's posts but they show up now and again on the six profile pics of his friends on Facebook .
Am I being a prude/ presumptuous / overthinking .

A sex worker could personally tell you she loves her job and you'd still insist she's exploited

And she still could be exploited.

Look at the number of women on mumsnet every day that love their husbands but the content of the posts suggests their husbands are abusive pricks.

It's no different.

Lots of women will defend something out of fear or embarrassment of admitting they are 'weak'

Unpopular opinion but I think some women who oppose porn just hate it because their partner wanks to it. We all still consume other things which are exploitative, but they shout the loudest about porn.
I wouldn't call it an unpopular opinion. I believe it is ethical an awareness of the darkness within the industry.
Besides I'm bloody gorgeous too.I don't suffer insecurities around DP.

Not all of them, but probably most of them, despite what they tell their life partners.

Ahh yes - the "men are inherently liars and women are stupid for believing them" trope.

I'm sorry for whatever has happened to you to make you feel that way. There are plenty of trustworthy men out there.

@BlackBucketOfCheese

Imagine thinking you can’t start caring about exploitation because you’re not on the ball about every single element of exploitation that exists on the planet.

We can’t even begin, as individuals, to be aware of every type of exploitation out there but when you know something is horrible, awful and exploitative (RAPE, human trafficking) but you still continue consuming it because you’re yet to stop consuming (or haven’t even learned about) other exploitative elements of the world then you find yourself in a bit of a strange knot.

And women who slip up and don’t buy fair trade chocolate, how dare you complain about pornography? You are suuuuuurely just trying to stop your husband’s wanking fun.

This ^ 100% to this

OF doesn't offer guarantee that the porn sites don't though. There is still the potential for abuse, non consensual activity, rape and more often than not, drugs.

Plenty of women on OF run accounts without even showing nudity. Anyone can go to the site, make the account, upload to any level of comfort (I hear some people don't even produce wank material) and charge whatever they like.

In some people's minds, the possibility of abuse is still too high. Under what circumstances can a woman choose to produce sexual content (which does not necessarily mean sex), without you judging that the chances that she is being abused are "too high"?

I'm genuinely curious about where the bar of likelihood lays.

Do you think most men don’t actually realise that there is exploitation in porn? I wonder how many would choose to watch it - after being given some facts or watching a documentary. I honestly didn’t realise myself until a couple of years ago and I watched something about it. I think there should be more a

@BlackBucketOfCheese I’m not going to sit here and argue with you forever more over this, however what I will say is that my post was NOT meant as an insult towards the women, more as a fact - I never said ALL women (so don’t make me into a woman hater please!), just my experience of my own friends. I know my friends and I know which ones are insecure and which ones are controlling (whether that’s with nights out, female friends, whether or not to play sport with their mates - literally anything!), which I have told them when they have asked for my opinion.

Porn makes some people insecure, and some try to control their partners behaviour by telling them not to consume it.. which means a percentage of people will lie, because they know if they told the truth they’d be in for a hammering. A man would also be insecure and controlling if their wife/girlfriend wanted to watch ethical porn and they tried to say ‘no you don’t’. The thread was about women not wanting men to watch it, so that’s the angle that I came at - I’m certainly not attacking or blaming women!

Obviously not all men watch it and lie, that’d be a terrible generalization, but a good percentage I’d bet; porn is normalized from a very young age, to the point it’s as average as brushing your teeth in the morning as a teenager, so it’d be a rare fish that managed to slip through the porn net completely. They do exist though, no doubt.

Blanket ban is never going to work with something that’s so normal in people’s lives. I agree that there are lots of problems with exploitation as I’ve mentioned above, so I think the focus should be having calm discussions with our partners & consuming ethically.. rather than saying ‘you WONT do this’ or ‘I think you are disgusting if you do this’ and introducing secrecy and shame into the relationship.

Just my opinion!

There should be more publicity and awareness of it. Also, why are the big porn channels policing it better to show they are doing as much as possible to avoid exploitation

He used to, has always been transparent about it. No big deal tbh.

Plenty of women on OF run accounts without even showing nudity. Anyone can go to the site, make the account, upload to any level of comfort (I hear some people don't even produce wank material) and charge whatever they like.

Quite. But we were discussing porn. So i assumed the OF connection meant nudity and sex acts.

In some people's minds, the possibility of abuse is still too high. Under what circumstances can a woman choose to produce sexual content (which does not necessarily mean sex), without you judging that the chances that she is being abused are "too high"?

The possibility exists was my point really. We have seen addicts raped in only fans for the price of their next hit. A woman can choose to produce sexual content any time she wants. I'm not judging the woman, only the platform. OF is not a 'safe' way for people to view porn etc

I'm genuinely curious about where the bar of likelihood lays.

For me, if it's possible and I know about it, I don't go there. It's quite simple.

I know that out of 100 women on OF the majority are not being exploited and are there purely though choice, it's the minority that makes this a non starter though. They are who matter.

All men or all British men?
Or all British men at a certain level in society?
Mine doesn't because he doesn't have a laptop or wifi where he lives and was quite shocked when I asked him this, some years ago.
My late husband didn't either.
Both of the above not British.

Do you think most men don’t actually realise that there is exploitation in porn? I wonder how many would choose to watch it - after being given some facts or watching a documentary.

I was going to suggest that 'most men' are not idiots and must be aware, but then I realised the amount of women on this thread alone who don't have a clue. Not just that but when pointed the basics they are actively defending the behaviour rather then saying 'oh, I had no idea, I will go do some research'. Embarrassed I supposed.

I honestly didn’t realise myself until a couple of years ago and I watched something about it.

Not so recently but when we, that is DH and I, realised that was an end to it. It was many years ago, as I said before the arrival of the huge platform for porn that is the internet also gave us the biggest library in the world.

Under what circumstances can a woman choose to produce sexual content (which does not necessarily mean sex), without you judging that the chances that she is being abused are "too high"?
As long as it is their choice but is it ever? The area I live has a high level of poverty, addiction.
Two girls here started OF at 18 now 20 living the high life in their opinion.
They've travelled to Europe meeting fans, they're in the 1000's their private videos uploaded on-line the fans aren't supplying an expensive handbag for nothing.
All the young teenagers think these 2 are fab, posting exotic pictures on Instagram.
I know one has major family issues.
Are they suffering exploitation based on their background?
I believe they are, they'll suffer rape at some point too if they refuse fans in a foreign country.

I am as certain as I can be that DH does not watch porn.

Part of the reason for this is because when I have discussed the problems of modern internet porn (e.g. normalising sexual violence, normalising male-centred sexual acts/female degradation, issues around consent) he quite clearly has no idea what I am talking about and is pretty baffled and horrified by it all. For him, porn is the top shelf of the newsagents from his youth.

@DedlyMedally

OF doesn't offer guarantee that the porn sites don't though. There is still the potential for abuse, non consensual activity, rape and more often than not, drugs.

Plenty of women on OF run accounts without even showing nudity. Anyone can go to the site, make the account, upload to any level of comfort (I hear some people don't even produce wank material) and charge whatever they like.

In some people's minds, the possibility of abuse is still too high. Under what circumstances can a woman choose to produce sexual content (which does not necessarily mean sex), without you judging that the chances that she is being abused are "too high"?

I'm genuinely curious about where the bar of likelihood lays.

Imagine a world in which gladiator competitions exist in which people fight for money on camera. Lots of men do it willingly because the financial rewards are quite high. However, it's well known that a percentage of the fighters were kidnapped as teenagers, beaten and forced to fight. They've been viciously trained to fulfil this role for the entertainment of the viewing public.

Are you going to pay to watch the matches? Knowing that there's a chance that the young man in the ring isn't there by choice, has been taken from his family and brutally assaulted over and over again so you and others like you can enjoy the spectacle? Knowing that if no one paid to watch this stuff, no one would be forced to participate in it at all?

How many kids would this have to happen to in order to matter? Generally curious where the line is.

@cheeseismydownfall I think there may also be a generational aspect to it as well?
I have heard from my mum that when she was young, men who watched porn were seen as seedy and strange - like you say, she remembers it as being on the top shelf and it all being a bit cloak and dagger.

Whereas for my age group (late 20’s), no one would even bat an eyelid. I don’t have a male friend that doesn’t, and remember it being very normal at school.

*genuinely

Generally curious where the line is.

Same.

Which amount of abuse in porn are you happy with? What percentage chance of you watching porn, that features someone who has been trafficked is ok?
Would you be ok clicking on the video if there is a 0.1% chance of a women being trafficked, raped and addicted to drugs being featured?
What about 5%?
40%?
More?

DP does, as do lots of his friends-some married, all in relationships.
We have a great sex life. It doesn't bother me really but I know it's a huge issue for other people. He's honest about it-I'd be more bothered if he lied.

@Hamfisted
Your scenario is to competitive martial art what an illegal brothel staffed by trafficked women would be to OnlyFans.

I would disagree with gladiatorial combat involving trafficked slaves, I quite like watching Olympic Wrestling.

I get what you're trying to do, but it's absurd.

@BlackBucketOfCheese

Generally curious where the line is.

Same.

Which amount of abuse in porn are you happy with? What percentage chance of you watching porn, that features someone who has been trafficked is ok?
Would you be ok clicking on the video if there is a 0.1% chance of a women being trafficked, raped and addicted to drugs being featured?
What about 5%?
40%?
More?

I've never thought about it.

What's your percentage?

I don't think mine does.

I've no doubt he probably did when he was single for years and years and I know when he was much younger he did as he said..young lads and all that

Now he doesn't. He only has his phone and he's not secretive about that, I've seen nothing porn like or photos anywhere. I've no reason to suspect he does. He's pretty respectful towards women anyway.

My ex on the other hand was a sleazy disrespectful arsehole, pics on his phone and liked watching porn on his xbox

What's your percentage?

I don’t watch porn, I actively campaign against it. I’ve seen the injuries sustained first hand.
I think anyone who knows there is any chance that they might be watching trafficked people forced to have sex and continues to press the button in order to get off, is scum.

@BlackBucketOfCheese
I mean exploitation I'm general. How much do you accept in your supply chains?

@Emeraldshamrock
I can sort of see where you're going with this, but in a capitalist society I would argue that few people are making an active choice about how they spend their time.
My job is a function of what I'm ok with doing, what I can do, how much money I want/need and what people will actually pay me for.

If money was not a concern, I would not be doing what I currently spend most of my waking hours doing.
But most people would describe my job as an active choice. The decision-making process for someone doing onlyfans doesn't differ significantly, though the parameters will differ between individuals.

God I really hate this: "if your partner tells you he doesn't, he must be lying and you are an idiot" trope.

And the 'cool girl': "there's nothing wrong with it, why are you so controlling idiocy" being spouted on here.

I am as certain as I can be that my boyfriend doesn't. For all the reasons I have already explained. But also mostly because I trust him. When I have asked him he has always been honest.

The first conversation we had was before we lived together. He said yes sometimes. And asked if I did. I said no, not anymore because trafficking / exploitation etc. He did some research and decided he wanted no part of it either.

A year or so after we moved in together I asked him out of curiosity. He said a couple of times when I'd been away on work trips. But that the exploitation stuff had bothered him, he'd not really enjoyed it because of that. And he wouldn't bother again.

And I believe him. Why would he lie? I wouldn't leave him if he did watch it. It's his own ethical choice to make.

But also I don't think he does because as I have outlined - we share an iPad. We go to bed at the same time. We have baths together as we have a big tub.

We do shower separately but fairly often I will wonder in to brush my teeth or have a chat. Even when he pees he leaves the door open (much to my annoyance).

I really, genuinely think that if he was watching it I would have accidentally walked in on him by now.

Also - to the person saying that we must be upset because of the wanking not the exploitation - what utter nonsense. I have absolutely no problem with my OH masturbating.

He is over 45, has ED and can't be bothered to take viagra for a wank, so he doesn't as much as he used to when he was younger. But he definitely does it sometimes.

I certainly do and far more regularly than him. I also often tell him when I have. So we have a VERY open relationship wrt to self-pleasure.

When I asked him just now what he uses instead of porn when he masturbates he said: "either my imagination, or naked photos of you". I guess the latter is sort of porn. Albeit of his girlfriend. I'm not sure it counts for the purposes of this discussion.