Census I don't belong.

[Devlesko]

I'm equally sadened and angered.
Every other ethnicity covered as far as I know, all other travelling groups rightly so. Roma who are here from Eastern Europe.

We have been told by campaigners to stand up and be counted so that we can access healthcare and schools.
Now we are white other, not a mention.

It's not just semantics we are all different ethnicities with separate cultures, the only similarity is we travel, or try to. Our DNA is distinctive to our ethnicity Irish and Romany are completely different.

What is a gypsy? What ethnicity? It doesn't exist. But more recently those who are interested and thank you, know that Romany originate from India, around 1,500 years ago and have been in the UK for 500 years.
During which time we have been enslaved, tortured, murdered, transported, hated by society and persecuted by Kings and Governments.

I'm sick of the back door laws to erode if not annilate our culture. It just isn't fair. Society tars us all with the same brush, but you can ask any health visitor who has ever visited how family orientated we are and spotlessley clean.

Gypsy is a slur for American Romany and Europeans. But it's that bad in the UK where we face racism daily that it's hardly worth fighting the use of the word "gypsy"

I'm writing this because I know whilst theres a few on here with Romany links, Mumsnet is a new audience and apart from me very few would venture. That is nothing personal, just a different culture.

So when you see us being refused service in a pub, restaurant, wedding reception venue, don't spit at us, laugh, call us names, we are human.

@Cabinfever10

Funnily enough that’s almost exactly what a friend said the other day. Exactly the words - imposing conformity.

It’s been called other things, of course, if we look back in history.

The bill just passed its second reading. 263 MPs voted against it- but we’re still one more horrifying step along the road to... I don’t want to be hyperbolic but I don’t think it IS hyperbolic to say “fascism” now.... I really truly fear that’s where we’re going.

But as you can imagine the needs between the two are different, and so need a distiction when being counted

What are the different needs between the two?

I thought Roma were mainly from Eastern Europe?
Romany - I lived alongside some Romany people as a teenager who built me a bender when I was flooded out of my tent- Lurchers and fruit picking. They are very distinct from Irish Travellers- whom DS went to school with - Catholic School-
All seem to be marginalised people, naturally distrustful of outsiders.
Good and bad in every Community.
Judge not lest ye be judged.

Yes it's the same except that Romany have been in the UK for more than 500 years. We have lived a different life to European Roma
So 1500 years ago same people.
Now, distinctly different.
We face similar racism in our own countries.
It's shocking how Roma are forced to live throughout europe.
Until 2004 cases were still being heard from victims of forced sterilisation.

The UK they just social engineer us away. Ethnic cleansing without the guns.
The Police chief thinks they have enough powers against us already.
They don't want anymore.

OP, I'm sorry to hear about this, it sounds shit. Aren't there a lot of issues with this census? I saw on twitter people saying it's either hard or impossible to categorise yourself as British if you belong to certain other categories, and that sounded really worrying.

It also seems weird to me people think it's ok to conflate groups of people who're different, just because the numbers in question are small. What does that have to do with it?! Even a box marked 'other' that'd let you write in the specifics would be better. But in this day and age we could surely cope with a form that has masses of options - it's not like someone has to type each form individually, is it?!

I'm directly descended from Romany blood on my paternal side, my family were and still are travelling showman - My gran was one of nine born on the road in a Bow Top wagon. Can I call myself Romany ? I'm mightily proud of my ancestry but think I am too far removed to claim this on the census form.

@Yapplepearora that's a really good way of putting it. I was born in South Africa, but my heritage is incredibly mixed. I moved to England as a teenager and tend to put white - British or white - Other. But it doesn't affect my life. My knowledge of Romany, Roma and Irish traveller is very limited.

I'm sick of the back door laws to erode if not annilate our culture. It just isn't fair. It isn't fair, the bill in parliament tonight worries me greatly.

I don't accept your concerns OP.

We are all the same, yet equally different, and still again all the same. you can go round in circles on that one and the more balanced you are the more that is true. The UK has a long way to go, and it will get there, but do not try to compare this country to the rest of the world or you may be both disappointed and pleasantly surprised in equal measure.

I am mixed race. Irish, Swiss, Indian, Turkish, with a bit of English mixed in to all of those lines. I am not looking for a special tick box. I identify with the closest I can on the Census and grateful that I can add to the information set that will be available to our future democratic governance.

@SlothMamaToBe

The whole categorising of ethnicity is problematic - most people are a mixture of different backgrounds! There also wasn’t an option for British Jew - maybe due the fact there is often a misunderstanding of people believing Judaism is just a religion and not an ethnic group. As pp stated people who identify as Black Caribbean are generally descendants of Africa - which some could argue, makes those categories a bit redundant? There was an option to comment at end of census - did you express your concern there?

I looked into that one as DH is ethnically Jewish but atheist and the only option was for religious jews.

He used the write in your own option and put Jewish, and DD went in as Jewish/White British.

Apparently they focused group in Manchester and the Jewish community said they would prefer not to be marked as an ethnic group.

Strikes me as a bit odd as there are a number of illnesses that don't care how observant you are, but are purely down to your genes. And Judaism is just as much an ethnic group as a religion.

Apparently in Scotland the cenus form there will have Jewish as an ethnic option.

Who cares! That census is one very nosy little form! Doesn’t it have ‘other’ so you can specify?
I’m sure it does.... how would you describe yourself?

I think the OP is misinformed about the terminology of their own background. Maybe in their family it is usual to distinguish between Romanian Roma and British Romani, but that is not the case in the wider community.

Roma and Romani are usually used interchangeably, as others have said. Even the OP admits they are ethnically the same.

Just because some more recently came from Romania and others have been here longer doesn't change their ethnicity.

There is a separate bit for national identity, so those groups will be distinguished between in that question anyway.

Most Black Caribbean people are descended from slaves who were taken from Africa between the 1500s and 1800s

@AnaisNun Most Black British families and people from the Carribean came from the 1950s onwards.

There were very few people of colour in the UK before the 20th century.

@Devlesko thank you for answering. Really had no idea. And actually, yes there should be an option to say other and enter your ethnicity. I'm sorry that you've faced such discrimination.

Romani aren't Romanians

@OhCrumbsWhereNow thank you that’s interesting about differences between Scottish and English census.
I have a fear around answering those types of questions - was always warned by my grandmother to just put white British / Church of England for obvious reasons. At the same time it’s frustrating for any minority community to not be recognised .

I’ve just read the ethnicity options - I will have to tick ‘any other Mixed or Multiple ethnic background’ for my children. Don’t think you can get any more vague!

@rosiejaune absolutely fascinating! How far back does ethnicity go? Genuinely wanting to learn.

@Devlesko
The Romanies- Wateringbury, Kent- who made me a bender out of Hazel where I stayed dry all summer - and they let me live alongside their caravans for safety-
I was so grateful for.
Loved Lurchers ever since., too💕

I ticked British. I have more important things to worry about that a box on a form.

My grandmother always told me she had “Romani blood” from her mothers side. I’ve tried to research the family tree but I lose them around the 1890s and they were settled then.

She specifically said “Romany” and not “Roma” - does this mean that her heritage would have been traced back to England some 500 years ago rather than Europe more recently?

I’m fascinated and wish I knew more.

Distinct ethnicities should be represented separately, it will make the census a more useful and complete dataset.

Survey to the Roma still in the UK

How worried are you that you will lose your home?
Not worried at all. Our rent and others bills are paid.

Romany:

Very worried, if we move and stop on the way somewhere the Police have been instructed to confiscate our homes making us homeless.
We don't want a council house, you can have those, there's enough on the list.
We can't stop because councils won't provide sites and villages have signs up saying awful racist things about being unwanted.

White other covers lots of groups. French and Polish people have very different cultures too but they are grouped under the same category - and there will be a lot more of them than either Romany or Roma.

Like you say, the thing that unites different traveller groups is that you travel. Isn't that the important thing the government needs to know from the census? The number of travellers and thus the amount of provision that needs to be made for you? What different needs do Roma have compared to Romany?