Census I don't belong.

[Devlesko]

I'm equally sadened and angered.
Every other ethnicity covered as far as I know, all other travelling groups rightly so. Roma who are here from Eastern Europe.

We have been told by campaigners to stand up and be counted so that we can access healthcare and schools.
Now we are white other, not a mention.

It's not just semantics we are all different ethnicities with separate cultures, the only similarity is we travel, or try to. Our DNA is distinctive to our ethnicity Irish and Romany are completely different.

What is a gypsy? What ethnicity? It doesn't exist. But more recently those who are interested and thank you, know that Romany originate from India, around 1,500 years ago and have been in the UK for 500 years.
During which time we have been enslaved, tortured, murdered, transported, hated by society and persecuted by Kings and Governments.

I'm sick of the back door laws to erode if not annilate our culture. It just isn't fair. Society tars us all with the same brush, but you can ask any health visitor who has ever visited how family orientated we are and spotlessley clean.

Gypsy is a slur for American Romany and Europeans. But it's that bad in the UK where we face racism daily that it's hardly worth fighting the use of the word "gypsy"

I'm writing this because I know whilst theres a few on here with Romany links, Mumsnet is a new audience and apart from me very few would venture. That is nothing personal, just a different culture.

So when you see us being refused service in a pub, restaurant, wedding reception venue, don't spit at us, laugh, call us names, we are human.

What do you think the criteria should be for an ethnicity to have its own box rather than Other?

I wonder why MNHQ bother to delete the post from @Principessa2070when loads of other people then quote it and arent deleted may as well not bother

I meant to write right to abode! Been reading far too much American politics, brain fart. I don't think a right to bear arms is important at all, sorry.

What is the difference then culturally between Roma, and Romany, since the terms seem to be used interchangeably, to describe those from a certain area?

@GreenSlide

So what do you think the options should be OP? I'm surprised gypsy was on there - change that to Romany?

Exactly and then separate Romany from Irish traveller and Romany. Most Roma have gone now, given 2K to go home. I've seen some of the documentaries of where they live, it's awful. What is the use of money if you are locked out of cities and not given access to water and sanitation. What good will the money do? It's heartbreaking. Those that stayed are mostly in the North in terraces, some work, some a mix of work and benefit. Those that just came for benefit, there were some, took the 2k and went when they could due to covid. You'd want to be with your family.

This is a far cry from the needs of Romany, we can't stop, we can't move and many are homeless. More and more laws are making it impossible for us to exist, due to racist governments.
This is just another nail in the coffin.

@AnaisNun
I had heard that the new police bill would prevent protest but nothing about how it would effect people with a nomadic way of life, what is it that they are criminalising?

Mine isn't there either but I just put 'other'. Not going to cry about it.

@babbaloushka I did chuckle at a right to bear arms. I was like what is happening that I've missed .

I googled this. An article came up encyclopaedia Britannica. Roma, Rom also known as Romany. If this is wrong then steps should be taken to correct it. If you're not happy about the terms on the census form complain to your MP.

Big campaign in Cornwall for people to opt for other and type in Cornish.

[quote AnaisNun]@Tal45

You do understand that’s like saying to a Black Caribbean person “but how are Black African and Black Caribbean different?”

I despair.[/quote]
I don't think it's the same. Roma and Romany/Romani are both part of what we call gypsies.
From Wikipedia: "The Romani (/ˈroʊməni/, /ˈrɒ-/), also known as Roma, are an Indo-Aryan people, traditionally nomadic itinerants living mostly in Europe, as well as diaspora populations in the Americas. The Romani are widely known in English by the exonym Gypsies (or Gipsies), which is considered by some Roma people to be pejorative due to its connotations of illegality and irregularity.[61]"

"English usage

A Romani wagon pictured in 2009 in Grandborough Fields in Warwickshire (Grandborough Fields Road is a popular spot for travelling people)
In the English language (according to the Oxford English Dictionary), Rom is a noun (with the plural Roma or Roms) and an adjective, while Romani (Romany) is also a noun (with the plural Romani, the Romani, Romanies, or Romanis) and an adjective. Both Rom and Romani have been in use in English since the 19th century as an alternative for Gypsy.[83] Romani was sometimes spelled Rommany, but more often Romany, while today Romani is the most popular spelling. Occasionally, the double r spelling (e.g., Rroma, Rromani) mentioned above is also encountered in English texts.

The term Roma is increasingly encountered,[84][85] as a generic term for the Romani people.[86][87][88]"

Now, Wikipedia may be wrong, but it's how the names are understood by many people at the moment.

@Cabinfever10

New powers to seize gypsy and traveller vehicles, criminalisation of trespass, 3 months in prison or 2.5k fine if arrested .... this comes after years of reducing the number of legal sites available to travellers. So now they have almost nowhere to stop legally, and when they do stop, their homes can be taken and they face legal action.

It’s grim.

@ancientgran

Big campaign in Cornwall for people to opt for other and type in Cornish.

There is also a campaign to write in European (as well as ticking another box).

I am mixed and I get a bit frustrated with the Asian category as it’s so broad. But it’s better than when I had to just tick other. It had mixed and then a sub category or what the mix was (although limited options).

The answer is to print it out and write your chosen ethnicity on the paper. Or wait for the census person to knock on your door and share your irritation.
Or. As a Romany myself I look at it this way. By more minorities being counted together, a bigger percentage will be factored for designing services in the future. More is more, so to speak.

@InkieNecro

I understand the frustration, but to put every single ethnicity on the list would be confusing (therfore prone to incorrect answers) and it would be extensive.

I'm Romany, Jewish, Welsh and English. There is no way for me to tick all of those boxes, I just have to pick whichever one seemed to fit the closest. It's like when you're pregnant, I told them my ethnicity and because it's such a jumble they referred me for almost every test they could think of. It isn't targeted at any one specific group.

White British, then?

Same here (well, Scots rather than Welsh and Ashkenazi rather than Jewish). It's called erasure; by lumping people into a generic category, any differences are cancelled out, thereby missing potentially glaring disparities.

Not quite the same thing but until recently BSL wasn't listed as a language on the Census.. I'm so pleased it now is as its my sons first language.

@HavelockVetinari

I've read quite a bit about the Romany people and understood that they are ethnically the same as Roma - originating from Northern India. Is this not the case? The books and articles I've read (many by Roma/Romany authors) use the two words interchangeably

This is quite true. In terms of DNA and culture very similar. I always say some of my ancestors just stopped off a bit sooner than us. Travelled very similar and at times routes. It's often used interchangeably in literacy and by geneologists. We even do it ourselves. But as you can imagine the needs between the two are different, and so need a distiction when being counted.

@HermioneMakepeace

Is it because ‘Roma’ are ethnically different to other Romanians, whereas ‘Romany’ are ethnically Irish?

Since when are Romany ethnically Irish? Are you confusing with Irish Travellers?

@Elderflower14

Not quite the same thing but until recently BSL wasn't listed as a language on the Census.. I'm so pleased it now is as its my sons first language.

I'm so pleased, about time.

In the part of America where I live "Gypsy" is a synonym for "Traveler" and most of the Travellers are Irish Catholics. Although within the last ten years there have been some middle-European travelers -- Hungary, etc.
There are several established Traveller towns, I live close to Murphy, South Carolina where there are well over a thousand permanent residents.
"Traveller" is not an option on the US census but I believe Irish is.

"Or wait for the census person to knock on your door and share your irritation."

Will they be doing that this year?

OP
I have the opposite problem though I haven't seen the questions

I don't think ethnicity should be there, to me it's like gender.

I don't what the hell I am supposed to put. If I put the one I agree with, it will be wrong. Not sure how they have broken it down.

[quote Cabinfever10]@AnaisNun
I had heard that the new police bill would prevent protest but nothing about how it would effect people with a nomadic way of life, what is it that they are criminalising?[/quote]
Amongst other things, being in a vehicle. Any vehicle. Doesn't matter if you're parked in Sainsbury's car park to pick up your weekly shop or pulled over to the side of the road to answer a call or checked the SatNav, you're illegal because you're that ethnicity and in a vehicle.

@AnaisNun

Black Carribean actually encompasses a lot more than african descent. Due to the movement (because of slavery), there is genetic mixes of European, chinese, middle eastern from that time, which you didnt really get happening in the U.S or in Britain during that time, so Black African has less diversity (in that way, Black African is a massively broad term as well, with hundreds of smaller groups from different regions and would consider themselves separate from each other).