To think that most men do respect women

[katieloves]

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

@MessAllOver

There is a spectrum of disrespectful behaviour towards women. Thankfully very few men are at the far end which involves rape and murder. But then there are less serious sexual assaults, sexual harassment and general objectification of women's bodies and this is widespread. Even more widespread amongst men is an undervaluing and taking for granted of women's time, effort and health that is incompatible with true respect for them. Many men have a mentality that it is fine if their partner does most of the childcare and housework and never gets time for herself. Because she's a woman and that's what woman do.

This.

Nobody is saying that all men are capable of rape, murder or sexual harassment but if we're talking about respect in its most general sense.... then I think we are a long way from that.
When you've got 97% of women saying they has experienced sexual harassment that tells you something.

That's not say that women aren't also disrespectful in many ways but that's not what this is about. It's the equivalent of shouting 'all lives matter' when people are discussing issues that specifically affect black lives.

I've never hit man op but I was beaten by a man I had been with for two years. CPS said it was my word against his even though a neighbour heard and told police.

I remember seeing a group chat my husband is in with his school mates. All of them are lovely men, who have only ever behaved respectfully to me and who seem to be really decent people. But I saw a conversation discussing the state of one of the men’s wife’s vagina after having three kids, and the repulsive language used to joke about it.

My husband and one other friend called them out on it (and received abuse - albeit affectionate abuse - themselves in return). The rest all participated. And as I said, these are generally decent, nice men who treat their partners well and would profess to view women as equals.

It’s hard not to have the view that most men actually don’t respect women once you’ve seen behind the mask. They make a decent show of it, they know it’s the right thing to do and want to be seen to he doing the decent thing. But when they’re in a ‘safe’ environment where it’s only other men around, they behave disrespectfully without even realising it’s what they’re doing. They think it’s harmless because it doesn’t affect their ‘real world’ behaviour. Only of course, it does. The bias is still there.

@katieloves I am picking YABU. I agree that not all men are horrible, abusive, and aggressive, and not all of them sexually harass or sexually assault women, but more of them disrespect women than not. Even the ones who don't intend to harm women, are guilty of disrespecting them.

Whether it's a 30 y.o. labourer on a building site in front of his mates yelling 'woo hoo that's a nice dress, you look gorgeous darlin!' Or more of a microaggression like a middle aged man trying to strike up a conversation with a young woman half his age, and muttering 'miserable cow' under his breath because she ignored him, or whether it's a man saying 'cheer up luv, you'll look prettier if you smile! Give us a smile!' .... It's ALL men thinking us women are their for their entertainment and amusement.

No way do most men respect women. Some do, most do not. From the way certain cultures and religions treat their women, to the way many husbands treat their wives. (Leaving all the childcare, domestic duties, and grunt work to her, and striking up inappropriate friendships with women at work or in a hobby group, (that exclude his wife,) and not giving a shit about his wife's feelings, and 'loving it' that she is 'jealous.') I see it on here every single day. Men treating their wives and partners like shit.

So YABVVVU. No, most men do NOT respect women. You must have been living alone in a cave all your life if you actually believe this!

[quote Twintub]@Holly60 has he got a WhatsApp group with his mates that can be a total eye opener ....[/quote]
No it’s a joint WhatsApp group with all our friends on there is plenty of what a younger generation would call ‘banter’ but nothing that would make anyone (and I mean anyone) uncomfortable

It’s hard not to have the view that most men actually don’t respect women once you’ve seen behind the mask. They make a decent show of it, they know it’s the right thing to do and want to be seen to he doing the decent thing. But when they’re in a ‘safe’ environment where it’s only other men around, they behave disrespectfully without even realising it’s what they’re doing. They think it’s harmless because it doesn’t affect their ‘real world’ behaviour. Only of course, it does. The bias is still there.

Well said 100% agree

@HeathIns

I’m reading some of the threads on here today and misandry is definitely alive and well.

Post that on one of those threads. They will tell you misandry doesn't exist 😂

Is there a reason that female strippers can't be touched but think of male strippers on a hen night etc?

I think many men choose to respect what kind of women they respect

So for some it will be a passive woman

Others a career minded informs everyone of her opinions woman

Some a homemaker

Do the majority of men respect all women no I don’t think they do

Many of us have learnt to navigate this

You're being naive you can't possibly know your DS's friends characters, everyone thinks "it isn't the men we know".

Genuinely respectful men don't feel vilified by this movement because they know it's not about them. Most of them have also witnessed the treatment of women by their gender, and believe the outrage entirely justified. They are campaigning for women's safety alongside us.

@Twintub

It’s hard not to have the view that most men actually don’t respect women once you’ve seen behind the mask. They make a decent show of it, they know it’s the right thing to do and want to be seen to he doing the decent thing. But when they’re in a ‘safe’ environment where it’s only other men around, they behave disrespectfully without even realising it’s what they’re doing. They think it’s harmless because it doesn’t affect their ‘real world’ behaviour. Only of course, it does. The bias is still there.

Well said 100% agree

Absolutely, and my DD showed me something asking men they respect all women or only women they are attracted to. Very, very interesting.

Look at how many threads where:
Man puts his feet up when he gets in from work but woman gets on with housework
Man chooses to have a child but leaves all the childcare to the woman

Man has to be given chores to do like a teenager
Man expects woman to sort all birthday cards, all presents, arrange all family events for HIS family
Man expects woman to carry mental load
Man expects sex on tap in relationships because he has 'needs'
Man justifies affair because woman with stitches from birth doesn't feel like having sex after she's worked a full day at work and done another 4 house chores
Woman ends up giving in and agreeing to sex she doesn't really want because her partner keeps going moody
Women get paid less than men for doing equivalent jobs
During lockdown women were shafted more than men because it was expected that women sacrifice their jobs, women do the home schooling, women do everything because the man's job is important

That doesn't show respect for women. That's a view that women are there to wipe men's arses, run the housebold and have sex with them

I do agree that the vast majority of men won't be violent to women, and most men won't be out and out misogynists, however, we live in a society where disrespect to women is normalised, the idea that women come second years its head once children arrive and society has entrenched privilege for men which is based on lacking respect for women.

I would say DH is a good guy, but he is a good guy because doesn't spend his time crying when people discuss male pattern violence or saying 'but I'm a nice guy'.

[quote katieloves]@TheWaif the men I know including my 16 year old ds and his friends 100% respect women.[/quote]
I wonder if they've ever called a girl at school a slag or rated their female classmates from 1-10. If they watch aggressive porn which is about male pleasure not female. Wonder if they've ever thought a girl was over dramatic for crying or a bitch for taking leadership initiative.

They are unlikely to seem sexist to their own mother, but teen boys have never been the most respectful of women.

@Carolina24

I remember seeing a group chat my husband is in with his school mates. All of them are lovely men, who have only ever behaved respectfully to me and who seem to be really decent people. But I saw a conversation discussing the state of one of the men’s wife’s vagina after having three kids, and the repulsive language used to joke about it.

My husband and one other friend called them out on it (and received abuse - albeit affectionate abuse - themselves in return). The rest all participated. And as I said, these are generally decent, nice men who treat their partners well and would profess to view women as equals.

It’s hard not to have the view that most men actually don’t respect women once you’ve seen behind the mask. They make a decent show of it, they know it’s the right thing to do and want to be seen to he doing the decent thing. But when they’re in a ‘safe’ environment where it’s only other men around, they behave disrespectfully without even realising it’s what they’re doing. They think it’s harmless because it doesn’t affect their ‘real world’ behaviour. Only of course, it does. The bias is still there.

That's actually fucking disgusting. I would have flat out left my DH if he had done that. Discussed (with his mates,) the 'state of my vagina' if it had been damaged by childbirth. There would have been no coming back from that I'm afraid.

Fuck me! I don't even know where to start with this one!

And I agree 100% with your last paragraph. As I said, most men do not respect women, not really, not properly. They profess to view women as equals, but they don't. From thinking a man deserves a promotion more than a woman, because 'she may have babies' or if she's got them 'she will probably need time off when they're ill!' To being annoyed if his wife has a good idea that's better than his, and criticising it to put her down and 'neg' her, so she doesn't get ideas above her station, and think she's cleverer than she is.

Just stop and think about how women and girls are treated all over the world.
In the bible belt in America, in Afghanistan, Iran, India, China, Poland, Russia, Saudi to name but a few and yes, here in the UK.

Consider FGM, selective abortion, infanticide, forced sterilisation, rape as a weapon of war, the recent shooting (in Afghanistan) of female professional women, no access to birth control, baby farms, legalised rape and domestic violence, revenge porn, pathetic sentences for murder, the rough sex defence, forced marriage. The list is endless.

Some men are respectful to a degree. That is the best that can be said. IMO.

@TheWaif

That really depends on what degree you mean to!

Do most men completely 100% respect women, not just to the level of not sexually assaulting them? No, of course not.

Do women completely 100% respect men?

Genuinely respectful men don't feel vilified by this movement because they know it's not about them. Most of them have also witnessed the treatment of women by their gender, and believe the outrage entirely justified. They are campaigning for women's safety alongside us.

This.

one only needs to look at the percentages of men who watch porn, who have affairs, who use prostitutes, who commit violence, who carry out micro aggressions such as speaking over women in meetings, who ogle teenage girls when out, who profess to live women but really only those women who conform to his idea of what a woman should be

A lot of women watch porn, have affairs, commit violence, carry out micro-aggressions, ogle men etc.

Ultimately a lot of people are shit or do shit things.

Extreme violence and aggression is predominantly a male trait.

Also, has no one ever heard men be rude about their wives and daughters? I remember being amazed with that when I having dinner with some military men who were unbelievably vile about their women waiting at home for them - stupid, fat, ugly. They spent a lot of time discussing the merits of prostitutes. I had to be there because it was my job, but I was staggered.

A lot of men “grade” women in terms of what they feel they can say about them. All the time. It is not a given that respect comes or that it is given equally by men.

@LolaSmiles we need to bring up sons (and it is responsibility of dads too) to not act like that in the home. DS not yet old enough to leave home and live with anyone, but if he was treating his partner like a doormat/servant, I would be down on him like a ton of bricks.

And women are really respectful of men , are they?

It’s hard not to have the view that most men actually don’t respect women once you’ve seen behind the mask. They make a decent show of it, they know it’s the right thing to do and want to be seen to he doing the decent thing. But when they’re in a ‘safe’ environment where it’s only other men around, they behave disrespectfully without even realising it’s what they’re doing. They think it’s harmless because it doesn’t affect their ‘real world’ behaviour. Only of course, it does. The bias is still there.

Exactly.

Do women completely 100% respect men?

Do men experience systemic inequality in pretty all aspects of their lives?
Have 97% men been sexually harassed by women?
Are two men a week killed by their female current or former partner?
Are men routinely discriminated against for having children
Are men routinely paid less than women for doing the same job?
Have men's careers been disproportionately disadvantaged during the pandemic?
Have men taken on a disproportionate amount of children and homeschooling over the last year?

@RootyT00t respect needs to be taught to everyone for everyone.

If we are going to expect men to call up other men on sexist banter, then women need to do the same