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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that most men do respect women

999 replies

katieloves · 13/03/2021 08:36

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
SmileEachDay · 13/03/2021 18:03

SmileEachDay well i think they would be if was a certain demographic

That’s not evidence, done

Blibbyblobby · 13/03/2021 18:05

@TheJerkStore

This isn't about career development. This post is about respect. I never mentioned career development.

It's all linked. All of it. And I said I looked at wider societal issues too....we do not have equality, not by a long shot

There are not enough claps for this post.

It is all linked. The lack of respect impacts the ability to gain career power. To gain financial power. To gain social power. To gain political power. To gain legal power. To gain personal safety.

IT
IS
ALL
LINKED

TheJerkStore · 13/03/2021 18:05

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@TheJerkStore no we probably don't have equality yet but do you think saying only men are the problem and all men at that is useful? Does that help change
By not realising that even in the workplace some women like to hold others back and treat them badly is also an issue , maybe not on the same scale , but some workplaces can be more women heavy
[/quote]
I've not said only men are the problem.
However misogynistic, patriarchal attitudes are the biggest issue. They infiltrate and influence everything ........

That doesn't mean some women don't respect men
Or that some women don't sabotage other women

It doesn't mean that I don't appreciate that there are a number of issues which specifically impact men

It doesn't mean I hate men. I don't - I know some wonderful men who treat women with the utmost respect and I love them dearly.

However, I believe men as a class do not respect women. I believe this attitude impacts how men view women which in turn impacts how they treat women. That can be expectations around childcare and household chores ( which impacts women's participation in the labour market) at one end of the scale to rape, sexual harassment and murder at the other end.

My mum was killed by her boyfriend because she wanted to leave him. His reason - if I can't have her then nobody can. In his eyes she belonged to him and he had the right to dispose of her when she no longer did as he asked. I'd like to think this is an extreme example but it's not - 2 women a week are murdered by their current or ex partner.

I'm glad women are angry and if you aren't, then you aren't paying attention.

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 18:07

@grassisjeweled

I couldn't care less how white men feel. Especially white men, let's face it. They've had it good for too long.
Sexist, nasty nonsense.
LolaSmiles · 13/03/2021 18:08

SmileEachDay
I also know some who call it out. I'd be happy if my son grew up to be a man like them.

I also know some who are very vocal about big issues, but have a blind spot on when it comes to 'small' scale sexism. They wouldn't dream of trying to hijack a discussion about systemic issues about female oppression to make it all about men. I think there's probably quite a lot of men who fall into this camp. They're not bad guys at all, but products of society. I think over time most of these men are the ones who will come round and some will be quite content with their 'I support feminism/equality, but...(insert an area of privilege they don't want to lose).

SmileEachDay · 13/03/2021 18:09

I'm glad women are angry and if you aren't, then you aren't paying attention

And

Big love. That’s a huge and complicated ragey grief you must have worked through. And be working through.

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 18:10

Oh TheJerkStore.

Hostilities abandoned, I am so so sorry you had to go through that. I can't imagine

UrAWizHarry · 13/03/2021 18:10

@CoalCraft

YANBU OP. Most of my friends are male simply because my hobbies are male dominated, and they are wonderful, kind, respectful and, in many ways, vulnerable people. Makes me sad to think that strangers would look at my dear friends and assume they're somehow predatory.

There's a tendency on this website to forget that men are actually human.

This, with bells on.

It's almost as if a minority of people are arseholes, and sticking labels on them ("Men"!, "Blacks"! "Cyclists") is a complete simplification of an incredibly complex issue. Still, it makes some people better to vilify entire groups on the actions of a few, so they crack on and fuck the consequences.

SimonJT · 13/03/2021 18:12

*Education. From earlier ages. Discussions in schools, youth centres, young offenders.

Teaching gender in schools (something which some schools do but many of you would disagree with)

Tougher sentences for offenders. Changes in legislation so that questions like what were you wearing or drinking are not asked in the manner that they are. Life sentences for rapists.

Better communication between men and women. Misandry' being taken as seriously as misogny.

Women and men coming together to tackle mental health. Less stigma for male care workers and female physical workers.

More representation of men and women working together on TV and sexist programmes which fit stereotypes done away with.*

I agree with all of this apart from misandry, we don’t need to treat it equally as it isn’t such a significant problem. It of course exists, but it isn’t endemic in society.

My partner has been watching say yes to dress recently (yes, it is total trash), one thing I have noticed is that it doesn’t really focus on the bride, it focuses so much on the ‘special’ bond between Dads and daughters, lots of Dads choosing the dress etc. Its quite creepy and very much treating the brides as possessions. On one of the episodes today the brides brother said she looked sexy in her wedding dress and he was impressed by her curves, I mean, liking a dress is fine, telling your sister you think shes sexy, thats fairly high on the creep scale.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 13/03/2021 18:12

Maybe men could be reminded occasionally that women are also human?

GoLightlyontheEarth · 13/03/2021 18:13

@grassisjeweled

I couldn't care less how white men feel. Especially white men, let's face it. They've had it good for too long.
That’s nice. Condemn every white man then. Including my sons who are respectful kind and caring. Is that any better than saying ‘all black men are ...’. Don’t be ridiculous.
TheJerkStore · 13/03/2021 18:14

Big love. That’s a huge and complicated ragey grief you must have worked through. And be working through.

Thank you.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 13/03/2021 18:14

@TheJerkStore I wasn't implying you just some on here who say every man
Sorry to hear about your mum,
I am aware that some men don't respect women but also as a mum of 2 boys i can also be concerned that they are being judged already and in some peoples eyes no matter what they do its wrong
Also I was a sahm and some feminists think that makes my dh sexist , yet it was my choice I wanted to , he just help support it
He always says he wish he could of had that oppurtunity
I think society as a whole has turned quite nasty in some ways , sm and twitter etc allow so much hatred at times

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 13/03/2021 18:17

@UrAWizHarry exactly I agree with that

SmileEachDay · 13/03/2021 18:20

It's almost as if a minority of people are arseholes, and sticking labels on them

Is helpful in terms of class analysis.

Quick quiz:

Which class of people commit 97% of sexually violent crime?

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 13/03/2021 18:22

@SmileEachDay and what percentage of men commit these crimes though ?

TheJerkStore · 13/03/2021 18:22

Hostilities abandoned, I am so so sorry you had to go through that. I can't imagine

Thank you.

I didn't post for sympathy- but thank you.

Before it happened I didn't really pay attention to any of this. I was young ( early 20s) and in an emotionally abusive relationship myself, had suffered long running sexual harassment at work and in the street but didn't really consider it a problem. If you'd asked me at the time I wouldn't have said there was an issue.

This one, life changing incident opened my eyes and ( once I'd freed myself from my own abusive relationship) started to research this. At first it was informal but I've since conducted some serious academic research. I deliver lectures on women in society and look at many of the issues discussed today.

I don't hate men. I have many wonderful men in my life who I love very much.

ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 13/03/2021 18:24

Misandry being taken as seriously as misogny

Misogyny is endemic, institutional, and leads to the deaths of 2 women every week in the UK at the hands of men, countless more rapes (62,000 a year even if you just count the reported ones) and sexual assaults. Worldwide, a foetus is more likely to be aborted if female, and a newborn is more likely to be killed if female. The pay gap, the pension gap. Women are significantly more likely to suffer and be seriously injured due to domestic violence.....

And misandry? Is that really as serious? Given that men have been the oppressor sex for millennia, and still are? Misandry is neither endemic nor institutional. It's in the same category as "racism against white people".

TheJerkStore · 13/03/2021 18:24

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@TheJerkStore I wasn't implying you just some on here who say every man
Sorry to hear about your mum,
I am aware that some men don't respect women but also as a mum of 2 boys i can also be concerned that they are being judged already and in some peoples eyes no matter what they do its wrong
Also I was a sahm and some feminists think that makes my dh sexist , yet it was my choice I wanted to , he just help support it
He always says he wish he could of had that oppurtunity
I think society as a whole has turned quite nasty in some ways , sm and twitter etc allow so much hatred at times

[/quote]
Thank you.

I am also a mum to boys and can understand your concerns.

ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 13/03/2021 18:25

And no, I don't hate men, but I have my eyes open to the fact that men as a class are not really on women's side and never have been.

Individual men might be fantastic allies, but as a class they are not.

ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 13/03/2021 18:25

@SmileEachDay

It's almost as if a minority of people are arseholes, and sticking labels on them

Is helpful in terms of class analysis.

Quick quiz:

Which class of people commit 97% of sexually violent crime?

Hmmm.... tricky one.
SmileEachDay · 13/03/2021 18:25

@SmileEachDay and what percentage of men commit these crimes though

You’re missing the point. If we know which things different classes do, which things happen to different classes then we can target intervention and support more effectively.

Unfortunately, if the response is NAMALT- and “but what percentage of men do this” is a variety of this - then it becomes more difficult to move forward.

SmileEachDay · 13/03/2021 18:27

Hmmm.... tricky one

Go on Receptacle, you can do it.

supercee · 13/03/2021 18:27

@TheJerkStore Sorry to hear about your experience. I've been nodding in agreement to your posts all day.

twelly · 13/03/2021 18:30

@grassisjeweled

I couldn't care less how white men feel. Especially white men, let's face it. They've had it good for too long.
I really do not agree , the next generation of males need to be treated fairly and we do need to take account of their feelings . We shouldn't be saying they don't matter because of those who went before - that is irrelevant to them. The other reason they need to be treated fairly and their feeling taken into account is because it will cause resentment and lead to polerisatind of view - male and females need to work together.