To think that most men do respect women

[katieloves]

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

except she didn't say it exactly like that

She absolutely said it in response to the Met “advice”

and at the time they they had a killer on the loose , like they would say after a crime in an area like a lot of cars broken into , keep cars locked , nothing on display etc

Women are not fecking cars. Jesus. I can’t have that conversation.

Where did the police say a curfew ? I hadn't read that

Look on Twitter. There’ll be a link to it there.

Blimey, what hope do we have of getting the good blokes on side to make changes when there's still women who don't believe the facts in front of them.

I'm so tired of being angry.

@LolaSmiles

Right. So can feminists not care about anything else, then? They can't accept truths because they're a feminist? They care about many things, as has been abundantly clear by the number of feminists across several threads today (that kept being turned back to whataboutmen) saying that toxic masculinity and the patriarchy is also harmful to men, that they also think the rates of male suicide is a problem, that they would support campaigns regarding men's mental health.

However, feminism is concerned with highlighting systemic oppression against women as a class.

Women should be able to talk about women's sex based oppression without having people arguing that women should also solve men's problems too.

Yes! Why the fuck should we centre men? They've never centred us.

@Pumperthepumper

Right. So can feminists not care about anything else, then? They can't accept truths because they're a feminist?

Feminism is a movement for the treatment of women. That’s why they don’t talk about men’s issues. It’s like how the RSPCA don’t talk about men’s issues. Because it’s irrelevant to their aims.

You’re not going to derail when you brought up strippers in the first place? Fine, let’s leave it there.

Misandry and misogyny being treated the same? Where are we on that?

I did, as a point , as in that we treat males and females differently. It was a small point in a bigger post.

That is a terrible comparison. Feminism talks about oppression, by men. The RSPCA is irrelevant here.

Well, we are where we are . I think all sexism should be treated equally. You don't. That's it really isn't it.

Okay so we don't centre men. They don't centre us . Well we aren't centring them. Well they're not centring us.

Great. All very noble and clever.

But in 100 years , we will still be in the same position.

Isn't that a step in the right direction?

No it isn't. It's actually a fucking insult to my intelligence. If they actually gave a shit they'd speak up. Just like they speak up when people are discussing the issues they care about.

No. They don't give a shit, but they don't want me to realise that they don't give a shit. They want to portray the 'nice guy' and get the credit for being an ally without doing any of the heavy lifting.

Fuck that shit. I almost prefer the honest misogyny of group 1.

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

@Usagi12 where are you getting those figures ? I know I haven't been asked and also if there are 100 men you work with and one is an arse , you would say you have been harassed and rightly so but 99 men you worked with were fine , so 97% doesn't mean 97% of men as some would claim
Like I said only been treated badly by 2 bosses and both were women

Behave FFS, you're telling me 97% of women have been harassed by a small number of men. The sheer amount of women and girls who are harassed shows it's a large scale issue and many men are doing this. Denying that and making excuses for men makes you part of the problem. Grow up. I work in an area where I see sexual harassment cases in the workplace constantly. Never in 20 years have I had a case where the man was a victim. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it's just very uncommon.

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

Isn't that a step in the right direction?

No it isn't. It's actually a fucking insult to my intelligence. If they actually gave a shit they'd speak up. Just like they speak up when people are discussing the issues they care about.

No. They don't give a shit, but they don't want me to realise that they don't give a shit. They want to portray the 'nice guy' and get the credit for being an ally without doing any of the heavy lifting.

Fuck that shit. I almost prefer the honest misogyny of group 1.

Maybe it's far more likely they care about you but also their friends and are stuck in the same toxic masculinity you are.

@SmileEachDay of course I know women are not cars , but if a man had been attacked the same would apply
Or a child if an incidence had happened the poilce would put out advise if they were concerned there could be a similar incidence
Its advise its not a law
Your saying the police had a curfew not me so I don't need to look
Its like 97% of violent crimes is by men, that doesn't mean that 97% of men commit these crimes like some almost like to imply
I have two teenage sons and believe me they have taken a fair bit of abuse from girls , one of them quite badly .
And hearing how some are basically righting them off
Not all but there are an element who keep saying all men ,

@RootyT00t Well, we are where we are . I think all sexism should be treated equally. You don't. That's it really isn't it.

Well, it probably is, since you can’t tell me how misandry and misogyny are equal problems in society. Because they aren’t. So sexism isn’t equal. So we can’t treat it equally. Because it isn’t.

Now, male violence? Where are we with that?

@RootyT00t

Pumperthepumper

No, I haven't.

You have. Feminism centres women, not men.

Right. So can feminists not care about anything else, then? They can't accept truths because they're a feminist?

Feminists care about many things, I care about bees. However, when I'm speaking about feminism, well the clue's in the name.

@TheJerkStore

If we're after equality, I feel like we have it.

I research this for a living. I specifically focus on the career development of women and look at the barriers women face in the workplace and society as a whole. I can categorically state we have not achieved equality.

This isn't about career development. This post is about respect. I never mentioned career development.

Are you serious? The men in group 1 are most likely to listen to other men. Not the "humourless feminist". If I can be brave and speak up (and I don't just do it when the 'banter' is misogynist, I do it when there s homophobia or racism too) then so can they. They don't even have to raise the objection first - I've already raised it.

Out of dozens and dozens of men I've been in this scenario with over the years, not a single fucking one has given a shit.

If men feel trapped by toxic masculinity from other men, and can't fight it openly we're gonna need a bigger boat.....

Okay so we don't centre men. They don't centre us . Well we aren't centring them. Well they're not centring us.
Great. All very noble and clever.
But in 100 years , we will still be in the same position
Look back at the last hundred years and see how much change has happened.
It's happened because women have had to fight for it.
I'd like to think we'll make more progress over the next 100 years, though it will be more difficult when there's women intent on arguing that pesky women who care about sex based oppression are branded mean/nasty/toxic for speaking out.

@Usagi12 oh the irony , the way you have spoken os disrespectful to me but as thats woman to woman is that ok
If a man spoke to you like that would you then claim abuse or harassment
I wasn't rude to you
I speak up if i see a situation of any man disrespecting a women , I have brought up my boys to respect women as well as men and like I say my ds took a fair amount if abuse of a girl and it was minimised by many as hes a boy and shes a girl

This isn't about career development.
This post is about respect.
I never mentioned career development.

It's all linked. All of it. And I said I looked at wider societal issues too....we do not have equality, not by a long shot

@LolaSmiles

Okay so we don't centre men. They don't centre us . Well we aren't centring them. Well they're not centring us. Great. All very noble and clever. But in 100 years , we will still be in the same position Look back at the last hundred years and see how much change has happened. It's happened because women have had to fight for it. I'd like to think we'll make more progress over the next 100 years, though it will be more difficult when there's women intent on arguing that pesky women who care about sex based oppression are branded mean/nasty/toxic for speaking out.

Exactly. Everything women have won has been despite male opposition. Either we fight for it, or it doesn't happen. And it is really disheartening to see women denigrating the women fighting hard for us all as "misandrists".

@stressedsloth exactly

@TheJerkStore no we probably don't have equality yet but do you think saying only men are the problem and all men at that is useful? Does that help change
By not realising that even in the workplace some women like to hold others back and treat them badly is also an issue , maybe not on the same scale , but some workplaces can be more women heavy

I think that doing a male dominated hobby, one that has historically been seen as a bit macho/hard-core means I see more of this then many other women. If it weren't for my hobbies, I wouldn't spend much time being the only woman in a room full of blokes. Not just that but blokes who are a bit high on adrenaline and feeling like manly men.

It's really eye opening to see how they behave when the mask that they wear for their wives, girlfriends, daughters and employers slips.

but if a man had been attacked the same would apply

I have never seen men advised to not go out at night on their own. By the Met or anyone else. Nor have I seen them advised to tell a friend where they are or carry keys in their hands as a weapon. Never.

Happy to be proved wrong - I really would be.

Out of dozens and dozens of men I've been in this scenario with over the years, not a single fucking one has given a shit

I know 2 men who call this stuff out every time. Every time. They also don’t bang on about namalt in the face of women processing violence against women.

I love both of them dearly, and I hope my son grows up to be half the person they are.

I know probably 10 or 15 women well. Every one of them will call that shit out every single time.
If my son grows up to be half the person any of them are, I’ll be delighted.

@SmileEachDay well i think they would be if was a certain demographic , and is it also because men are expected to look after themselves? It is often assumed men can look after themselves , when men can have very different strengths
My dh intervened in an attack whilst we were coming home the young man being attacked could not stand up to the larger attacker and his friend was rooted to the spot , yet many would think they should if been able to look after themselves when they clearly couldn't

I couldn't care less how white men feel. Especially white men, let's face it. They've had it good for too long.