To think that most men do respect women

[katieloves]

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

@CoalCraft

YANBU OP. Most of my friends are male simply because my hobbies are male dominated, and they are wonderful, kind, respectful and, in many ways, vulnerable people. Makes me sad to think that strangers would look at my dear friends and assume they're somehow predatory.

There's a tendency on this website to forget that men are actually human.

Ooft good luck!

@Usagi12

The fact 97% of women have been sexually harassed would suggest most men either aren't nice guys or don't understand what constitutes sexual harassment.

Nope, there's no correlation between those two statements.

@rootyt00t

But I have an issue with the fact toxic feminists want misogny dealt with but don't really care how men are treated at any time.

I think you've rather missed the point of feminism 🤨🤨

[quote Usagi12]@rootyt00t

But I have an issue with the fact toxic feminists want misogny dealt with but don't really care how men are treated at any time.

I think you've rather missed the point of feminism 🤨🤨[/quote]
No, I haven't.

@LolaSmiles toxic just means toxic which anyone knows on mn there are quite a few on many of the threads
If someone disagrees they get shouted down
Like violent crimes being mostly committed by men , which is true and people cite a percentage , but 90% of crimes doesn't mean 90% of all men, the vast majority of men haven't and would step in
My dh stepped in in a man hitting a women and all he got for it was a load of abuse from the woman and they both turned on him

like mp who said all men should be in at 6pm

Oh for crying out loud. Do you know why she said that? It was in response to the Met police suggesting that women should be in at a certain time to keep themselves safe.

It was rhetoric designed to highlight the idiotic victim blaming nonsense.

Many men on Twitter were outraged. They completely missed the point.
As did you, apparently.

But you're not presenting solutions. What are your solutions? Other than refusing to allow anyone to be in any way positive about men?

Oh behave yourself, I’ve proved over and over again that I know more about men’s issues than the posters bringing up suicide rates or your misunderstanding of misandry. I’ve been more positive about men than you, by far. You can’t even tell me ways men are suffering with misandry in the workplace, even though that was your theory.

And I did bring up solutions - it involves all men, yes all men, All Men, all of them, recognising and combatting toxic masculinity. It involves society having a conversation about male violence without having to cry misandry.

So again, why treat misandry and misogyny equally? How can we? What strippers do you want to talk about?

No, I haven't.

You have. Feminism centres women, not men.

@Pumperthepumper

But you're not presenting solutions. What are your solutions? Other than refusing to allow anyone to be in any way positive about men?

Oh behave yourself, I’ve proved over and over again that I know more about men’s issues than the posters bringing up suicide rates or your misunderstanding of misandry. I’ve been more positive about men than you, by far. You can’t even tell me ways men are suffering with misandry in the workplace, even though that was your theory.

And I did bring up solutions - it involves all men, yes all men, All Men, all of them, recognising and combatting toxic masculinity. It involves society having a conversation about male violence without having to cry misandry.

So again, why treat misandry and misogyny equally? How can we? What strippers do you want to talk about?

You've been more positive about men than me? 😂😂😂 So you have.

You've asked that question about strippers about four times, and I've told you I'm not going to derail.

Ok fine. We agree. A conversation needs to be had. Fine.

@Pumperthepumper

No, I haven't.

You have. Feminism centres women, not men.

Right. So can feminists not care about anything else, then? They can't accept truths because they're a feminist?

Toxic, nasty, bullying, gang handed

I see.

So “toxic feminists” isn’t a “thing” it’s just what you’re calling the posters on here who disagree with you?

@Usagi12 where are you getting those figures ? I know I haven't been asked and also if there are 100 men you work with and one is an arse , you would say you have been harassed and rightly so but 99 men you worked with were fine , so 97% doesn't mean 97% of men as some would claim
Like I said only been treated badly by 2 bosses and both were women

@SmileEachDay

Toxic, nasty, bullying, gang handed

I see.

So “toxic feminists” isn’t a “thing” it’s just what you’re calling the posters on here who disagree with you?

No, it's not a thing. I called them toxic , because they are. (Not because they disagreed).

I take part in male dominated hobbies and have often been the only woman in a room of 15 or more men, on a trip away etc.

When they've had a drink or two, or when they relax to the point that they forget I'm there, the amount of misogynist banter that comes out is shocking. These are men from a range of socio-economic backgrounds, some work in trades, some are professionals, and aged between 20 and 60+. Lefty liberals and brexiters. Mainly white though (it's also a white dominated hobby).

The men fall into three groups:

• The ones who actively make the nasty sexist jokes, including rape jokes, and who drive the conversation in unpleasant directions.
• The ones who snigger along
• The ones who look uncomfortable and stay silent, and who might occasionally attempt to change the subject.

When I have spoken up in this environment and challenged the misogyny, group 1 will shout me down, call me a humourless feminist. Group 2 will tacitly back them up with their body language etc. (and will maybe play 'devil's advocate' with faux naivety, as it's all just a fun debate after all). Group 3 will stay silent.

I have never, ever been backed up by a man when I've spoken up in that scenario. So do I believe that most men genuinely respect women? Like fuck I do.

Right. So can feminists not care about anything else, then? They can't accept truths because they're a feminist?

Feminism is a movement for the treatment of women. That’s why they don’t talk about men’s issues. It’s like how the RSPCA don’t talk about men’s issues. Because it’s irrelevant to their aims.

You’re not going to derail when you brought up strippers in the first place? Fine, let’s leave it there.

Misandry and misogyny being treated the same? Where are we on that?

Although you're quite correct I don't give a shit how men are treated at any time. They seem to do remarkably well at looking after themselves.

So can feminists not care about anything else, then? They can't accept truths because they're a feminist?

I’m a feminist and I can accept truths.

Men are the perpetrators of 98% of sexually violent crime.

Women have babies and if you’re a blank woman, you’re 5 times more likely to die.

Toxic masculinity is damaging for men and women.

The earth is flat.

Potatoes have more vit C than spinach gram for gram.

Highlight in orange the ones which are to do with my feminism and green the ones which aren’t.

Right. So can feminists not care about anything else, then? They can't accept truths because they're a feminist?
They care about many things, as has been abundantly clear by the number of feminists across several threads today (that kept being turned back to whataboutmen) saying that toxic masculinity and the patriarchy is also harmful to men, that they also think the rates of male suicide is a problem, that they would support campaigns regarding men's mental health.

However, feminism is concerned with highlighting systemic oppression against women as a class.

Women should be able to talk about women's sex based oppression without having people arguing that women should also solve men's problems too.

*black woman ffs

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

www.openaccessgovernment.org/97-of-women-in-the-uk/105940/

@SmileEachDay except she didn't say it exactly like that and at the time they they had a killer on the loose , like they would say after a crime in an area like a lot of cars broken into , keep cars locked , nothing on display etc
Where did the police say a curfew ? I hadn't read that

Actually, group 3 will also sometimes try to placate me and swerve the whole isse: "I'm sure X is only messing. Come on guys, let's talk about something else." Afterwards they might tell me in private that they thought X was out of order.

But they never, ever have my back at the time. They never challenge the other men.

Pumperthepumper

"The fact is, until we can have a conversation about male violence and toxic masculinity without people trying to find an equivalent where women are just as bad or equally to blame or have an equal responsibility for change, people (men and women) are going to keep dying at this insane rate. It’s utterly bizarre to me that we can’t look for solutions to male violence without someone getting hurt feelings and that suddenly being more important than the death rate. It’s just incredible."

It is, isn't it.

The thing is, as well as knowing that SOME other men can be a danger to men's mums, daughters, sisters and wives etc, they know other men can be a danger to them too!

So if men know, probably most men, that SOME other men can be dangerous to women, to children and to themselves as men - why are they not clamoring for this to be investigated?

Why, when anyone has the sense to say it, will there always be some people who want to complain about painting all men in a certain light?

Is this male pattern violence being investigated by anyone?

@LolaSmiles

Right. So can feminists not care about anything else, then? They can't accept truths because they're a feminist? They care about many things, as has been abundantly clear by the number of feminists across several threads today (that kept being turned back to whataboutmen) saying that toxic masculinity and the patriarchy is also harmful to men, that they also think the rates of male suicide is a problem, that they would support campaigns regarding men's mental health.

However, feminism is concerned with highlighting systemic oppression against women as a class.

Women should be able to talk about women's sex based oppression without having people arguing that women should also solve men's problems too.

Not being quite honest there Lola. The main posts in relation to male suicide were vile and deleted.

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

Actually, group 3 will also sometimes try to placate me and swerve the whole isse: "I'm sure X is only messing. Come on guys, let's talk about something else." Afterwards they might tell me in private that they thought X was out of order.

But they never, ever have my back at the time. They never challenge the other men.

Isn't that a step in the right direction?