To think that most men do respect women

[katieloves]

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

@Whenthesunshines my reply was both to you and the person you were agreeing with.

@Carolina24

Saying something isn’t misogyny doesn’t magically make it true I’m afraid.

We will have to struggle on in disagreement then.

Yes and listen to what some of the girls talk about , on here some would say a boy asking a girl out is abusive or discussing fancying a person etc

No, it refers to you, Lola.
Me disagreeing with you isn't a pile on.

You've gone as far as to accuse my husband of being a virtue signaller because I said he (like many other decent men) believes that women discussing male violence is not a personal attack on him as a man, and that those men who try to hijack the male violence debate with whataboutery are trying to silence women.

For someone who has spent most of the day arguing that most men are respectful, not all men etc, it seems utterly bizarre to me that when I share about a man who is respectful and cares about the male violence debate, your response is to accuse him of being a liar.🤷‍♀️

I have no idea what you're trying to achieve. On one hand you need to 'stand up for men's against all this anti men, nasty feminist stuff, but then you think it's virtue signalling for a man to demonstrate the very outlook you claim is the norm.

Ps @BrumBoo, in the majority of schools, gender is a part of the curriculum in two subjects. I assume you know better than the education authority though.

@LolaSmiles

No, it refers to you, Lola. Me disagreeing with you isn't a pile on.

You've gone as far as to accuse my husband of being a virtue signaller because I said he (like many other decent men) believes that women discussing male violence is not a personal attack on him as a man, and that those men who try to hijack the male violence debate with whataboutery are trying to silence women.

For someone who has spent most of the day arguing that most men are respectful, not all men etc, it seems utterly bizarre to me that when I share about a man who is respectful and cares about the male violence debate, your response is to accuse him of being a liar.🤷‍♀️

I have no idea what you're trying to achieve. On one hand you need to 'stand up for men's against all this anti men, nasty feminist stuff, but then you think it's virtue signalling for a man to demonstrate the very outlook you claim is the norm.

Is your plan just to parrot everything I've said forevermore, Lola?

2 is a start. Il try again next time to work harder to fit the MN standards.

Two stating the obvious whilst other suggestions (like the gender education one) completely undermines any points you've made. What a win.

The problem is men putting women into a role, such as wife/daughter etc. This shouldn't be the case or reason.

@Pumperthepumper

Education. From earlier ages. Discussions in schools, youth centres, young offenders.

Teaching gender in schools (something which some schools do but many of you would disagree with)

Tougher sentences for offenders. Changes in legislation so that questions like what were you wearing or drinking are not asked in the manner that they are. Life sentences for rapists.

Better communication between men and women. Misandry' being taken as seriously as misogny.

Women and men coming together to tackle mental health. Less stigma for male care workers and female physical workers.

More representation of men and women working together on TV and sexist programmes which fit stereotypes done away with.

I agree with all of this, except the misandry one because we agreed that misandry isn’t an issue. It’s not as serious as misogyny, it doesn’t have the same impact on society so it seems a bit weird you’d want to treat it the same way.

I’d also add: every single man, all of them, yes ALL men, all of them, AM, YAM, need to agree that it’s a male issue, and one they all need to work on. So your colleagues making sexist comments at work are pulled up. No more strip clubs. No more standing to close to people at the printer and so on. In the same way very few men would indulge in banter around child abuse. That level of distaste is what we need.

We certainly didn't agree it's not an issue.

Are we going to ban male strippers as well I assume?

@RootyT00t

Ps *@BrumBoo*, in the majority of schools, gender is a part of the curriculum in two subjects. I assume you know better than the education authority though.

If schools are now teaching that girls have ladybrains and boys are masculine proper-mans as a full part of the curriculum, then the battle is already lost for the respect for either sex.

@RootyT00t oh come on! You said even you didn’t believe misandry was comparable with misogyny but two pages later said you want them treated the same?

I’d happily ban male strippers too. But let’s not pretend male stripping is anything like female stripping. Unless you seriously think it is? Happy to have that conversation with you.

I think you only need to look at the Relationship board to see how much men respect women.
Its mumsnet so will be women's experience , women have affairs , women treat men badly , it may be more men that do it but by accusing all men no one is ever resolving the problem
People can just be horrible to others and maybe thats what we need to challenge as well ,
Women also watch porn or download pictures of good looking men , how many on here didn't have a poster of a boy band on wall , yet if man has it would claim sexist.
( excl page 3 )
In many places no one is safe walking after dark, stricter sentences , more education is a better way to go
Teaching young girls and women to walk away at the first sign that a man treats them badly , more support for women leaving abusive relationships
Rather than blanket statement of most men or 6 pm curvews

[quote Pumperthepumper]@RootyT00t oh come on! You said even you didn’t believe misandry was comparable with misogyny but two pages later said you want them treated the same?

I’d happily ban male strippers too. But let’s not pretend male stripping is anything like female stripping. Unless you seriously think it is? Happy to have that conversation with you.[/quote]
I do want them treated the same. Is that allowed?

It's certainly treat differently! Women can't be touched, rightly so. But men?

@Brumboo like I said. You will know better than the education authority.

I think that men that react badly to this are probably doing so cos they know it's true, they know the behaviour may exist in them and most men, myself included, have made decisions they've got to live with.

Also how do people not realise, I mean I know they do realise but why do they pretend that this conversation is in anyway separate to the murder case. If that hadn't happened, this thread wouldn't be here as a counter to the others

Most men respect women about the same as most women respect men.
If we're after equality, I feel like we have it.

I hear and read more disrespect towards men than I do towards women (from men)

In fact most women do not respect other women. Maybe we should start there.

@LolaSmiles
I was talking to my DH about this and he put it brilliantly: if people trying to hijack a discussion about male violence against women wanted to campaign to raise awareness about the fact men are disproportionately affected by suicide than women then they would be donating to relevant charities, campaigning for mental health campaigns and leading a life that normalises men talking about their emotions - not trying to take over a discussion about male violence to women

I’m surprised you and your mates didn’t assume your dh was only saying that because he was trying to have sex with you as others have suggested men being supportive of the course are...or maybe he was?

@stressedsloth sorry tried to agree with you and copy paste bolded your post but didn't work , will as for it to be removed

@RootyT00tI do want them treated the same. Is that allowed?
Why do you want them treated the same when you don’t believe they are the same? What would that look like - we talk about misogyny leading to rape along with misandry leading to people leaving a thread on social media as if that’s the same thing? How would it work?

It's certainly treat differently! Women can't be touched, rightly so. But men?
Which women and which men? Again, happy to have this discussion with you but I need to know what you’re talking about - do you mean chippendale/ magic Mike type shows? And if so, what’s the female equivalent? Or do you mean strip-club types, in which case, what’s the male equivalent?

@stressedsloth are women the main perpetrators of abuse, violence, sexual assault and murder in human society?

Women are still discriminated against for being women in work, education, general society. How do you see this as 'equality'?

[quote Pumperthepumper]**@RootyT00tI do want them treated the same. Is that allowed?
Why do you want them treated the same when you don’t believe they are the same? What would that look like - we talk about misogyny leading to rape along with misandry leading to people leaving a thread on social media as if that’s the same thing? How would it work?

It's certainly treat differently! Women can't be touched, rightly so. But men?
Which women and which men? Again, happy to have this discussion with you but I need to know what you’re talking about - do you mean chippendale/ magic Mike type shows? And if so, what’s the female equivalent? Or do you mean strip-club types, in which case, what’s the male equivalent?[/quote]
You're being a bit sneaky with this thread leaving thing. That was a general point, that misandry' causes this. People with any other opinion bullied off when in actual fact we should be working together.

@RootyT00t You're being a bit sneaky with this thread leaving thing. That was a general point, that misandry' causes this. People with any other opinion bullied off when in actual fact we should be working together.

How can we treat misogyny and misandry the same? How would that look?

I’m surprised you and your mates didn’t assume your dh was only saying that because he was trying to have sex with you as others have suggested men being supportive of the course are...or maybe he was?

Touche OP.