To think that most men do respect women

[katieloves]

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

Misandry' being taken as seriously as misogny.

When it is as pervasive an issue in society then of course it should be.

Good grief.

@Whenthesunshines

In toxic echochamber mumsnetoland, obviously, every man should be locked up, including my 2 boys and DH who by virtue of being male are obviously complete arseholes just waiting for me to be out of earshot before calling us all cunts

It's ridiculous isn't it.

I'm thankful I don't know any of these women IRL.

You don't know any IRL because they don't exist. Yet another sensationalist post making up something that's never been said.

Oh they do exist. In all their glory on these threads.

I also know nobody like this IRL. Thank god.

Sorry life when did I ever say I haven't experienced it?

Well if you have experienced it and still don't see the problem....

Is that the only point you choose to pick up on? Not the fact that 76% of responders on this thread are perfectly entitled to hold this view and that it doesn't make them sexist because it's based on their lived experience?

@lifeturnsonadime

Misandry' being taken as seriously as misogny.

When it is as pervasive an issue in society then of course it should be.

Good grief.

Mm. Will it be?

We don't give jack stuff about the existing problems for males, so I don't see how we would.

Thanks for selecting that sentence out of quite a long post though.

Could you not find anything else to disagree with?

Ok, @RootyT00t. How about the fact that you’ve made a false equivalence between male violence towards women and female violence towards men? That you’ve suggested women who complain about male violence - or even just want to discuss it - are trying to be victims? That you’ve minimised over and over the experiences women have shared on this thread? That you’re centering male wellbeing on a thread about male violence?

Education. From earlier ages. Discussions in schools, youth centres, young offenders.

Teaching gender in schools (something which some schools do but many of you would disagree with)

Tougher sentences for offenders. Changes in legislation so that questions like what were you wearing or drinking are not asked in the manner that they are. Life sentences for rapists.

Better communication between men and women. Misandry' being taken as seriously as misogny.

Women and men coming together to tackle mental health. Less stigma for male care workers and female physical workers.

More representation of men and women working together on TV and sexist programmes which fit stereotypes done away with.

I agree with all of this, except the misandry one because we agreed that misandry isn’t an issue. It’s not as serious as misogyny, it doesn’t have the same impact on society so it seems a bit weird you’d want to treat it the same way.

I’d also add: every single man, all of them, yes ALL men, all of them, AM, YAM, need to agree that it’s a male issue, and one they all need to work on. So your colleagues making sexist comments at work are pulled up. No more strip clubs. No more standing to close to people at the printer and so on. In the same way very few men would indulge in banter around child abuse. That level of distaste is what we need.

I'm thankful I don't know any of these women IRL.

Two things. One, us that see that male pattern violence is a real issue do live in 'real life', we're not part of some imaginary coalition set up to wind the true women of the world?

Secondly, it's quite hypocritical of anyone to call and agree that MN is an 'echo chamber' of views, then say you don't know anyone like this in real life. That just tells us you live in your own echo chamber rather than MN being some strange land of opposition.

As it happens, I know women in real life who often post things about 'poor men' and how society 'won't let men be men anymore, hence their poor mental health'. Most of the time it's by women who are quite happy to accept gender stereotypes as normative, which is depressing in itself.

@j712adrian

Bloke here. The truth, I’m afraid is that most blokes don’t even like women.

I’ve been fortunate to work and study with women all my life. A lot of blokes are very intimidated at that prospect.

You have entered into the lion's den!

When I think of a 'bloke' I think of some random scratching his crotch.

'Men' come in all shapes and sizes ... some don't like women and some are just normal people who have the emotional maturity and intellect to get on with and communicate with people from both sexes.

@Carolina24

Ok, *@RootyT00t*. How about the fact that you’ve made a false equivalence between male violence towards women and female violence towards men? That you’ve suggested women who complain about male violence - or even just want to discuss it - are trying to be victims? That you’ve minimised over and over the experiences women have shared on this thread? That you’re centering male wellbeing on a thread about male violence?

I haven't minimised anyone's experience, I'd be interested to see that.

The trying to be victims, I don't think I was the poster who said that.

Centring male wellbeing on a thread about whether they are respectful is not misogny.

I also didn't make a false equivalence. Even if I did, that's not misogny either.

@RootyT00t

Oh they do exist. In all their glory on these threads.

I also know nobody like this IRL. Thank god.

No one has said all men should be locked up by virtue of being male. You're just being silly now.

@BrumBoo

I'm thankful I don't know any of these women IRL.

Two things. One, us that see that male pattern violence is a real issue do live in 'real life', we're not part of some imaginary coalition set up to wind the true women of the world?

Secondly, it's quite hypocritical of anyone to call and agree that MN is an 'echo chamber' of views, then say you don't know anyone like this in real life. That just tells us you live in your own echo chamber rather than MN being some strange land of opposition.

As it happens, I know women in real life who often post things about 'poor men' and how society 'won't let men be men anymore, hence their poor mental health'. Most of the time it's by women who are quite happy to accept gender stereotypes as normative, which is depressing in itself.

How is it hypocritical Brum?

Women are entitled to their beliefs regardless of their views on gender, by the way. You can't police them.

BrumBoo

You are replying to me and quoting someone else.

I also haven't said many of the things I'm accused of , supercee. Funny how we only worry about it one way.

We don't give jack stuff about the existing problems for males, so I don't see how we would.

Who doesn't give jack shit about existing problems for males?

I do for one, I have a son with serious mental health problems. He is unable to leave the house due to his poor mental health.

This doesn't mean that I have to believe that most men respect women.

@LolaSmiles

Can I ask this time? What pile on? I believe it refers to the angry/toxic/mean/nasty/(insert other word used to refer to women with strong opinions about women's oppression) feminists who have challenged their views across several threads today. Then when posters identify trends in the views, this is sneaky, harassment and trying to create a pile on.

No, it refers to you, Lola.

Popping up on four occasions to copy and paste sentences you know will cause a reaction when they've already been addressed and are out of context.

I stand by it.

lifeturnsonadime
I agree. I think toxic masculinity is hugely problematic and has large consequences for men. It needs addressing.

It doesn't mean I think men (as a class) are respectful of women. There's too many women with too many experiences that say otherwise.

Just look on the relationships threads to see how some 'nice guys' treat their wives and the mothers of their children.

Saying something isn’t misogyny doesn’t magically make it true I’m afraid.

@LolaSmiles

lifeturnsonadime I agree. I think toxic masculinity is hugely problematic and has large consequences for men. It needs addressing.

It doesn't mean I think men (as a class) are respectful of women. There's too many women with too many experiences that say otherwise.

Just look on the relationships threads to see how some 'nice guys' treat their wives and the mothers of their children.

I agree too. And as I said earlier in this thread, the last few days has proved beyond doubt that men are not ready to have that conversation yet. Which is such a shame because think how many lives could be saved by having all men recognise and combat toxic masculinity. It would literally change the world.

Education. From earlier ages. Discussions in schools, youth centres, young offenders.

That's all well and good, but what education in particular?

Teaching gender in schools (something which some schools do but many of you would disagree with)

So you want to counter ill feelings against girls and women by teaching about gender, the biggest cause of poisonous sexist stereotype ideology along with religion?

Tougher sentences for offenders. Changes in legislation so that questions like what were you wearing or drinking are not asked in the manner that they are. Life sentences for rapists.

I won't disagree with this one.

Better communication between men and women. Misandry' being taken as seriously as misogny.

When misandry is as destructive and ends in as much rape and murder as misogyny....

Women and men coming together to tackle mental health. Less stigma for male care workers and female physical workers.

Mental health isn't a one term umbrella. It affects men and women differently. Whilst we should be understanding in general of anyone suffering with MH it's not womens job as a society to fix violent males mental health.

More representation of men and women working together on TV and sexist programmes which fit stereotypes done away with.

Excellent suggestion. Let's start with Drag Race and go from there.

86 men a week kill themselves and we don't care.

So what do you personally do about that?

I agree with all of this, except the misandry one because we agreed that misandry isn’t an issue. It’s not as serious as misogyny, it doesn’t have the same impact on society so it seems a bit weird you’d want to treat it the same way.

Absolutely this.

Its like women are all perfect the way some are going on though , in all jobs I have had twice I have been bullied by a woman but never a male boss and never been in appropriate or such either.
We have banter in the office's I work in and some would be offended by that
Yes there are some awful men out there , but there are also some nice ones

@BrumBoo

Education. From earlier ages. Discussions in schools, youth centres, young offenders.

That's all well and good, but what education in particular?

Teaching gender in schools (something which some schools do but many of you would disagree with)

So you want to counter ill feelings against girls and women by teaching about gender, the biggest cause of poisonous sexist stereotype ideology along with religion?

Tougher sentences for offenders. Changes in legislation so that questions like what were you wearing or drinking are not asked in the manner that they are. Life sentences for rapists.

I won't disagree with this one.

Better communication between men and women. Misandry' being taken as seriously as misogny.

When misandry is as destructive and ends in as much rape and murder as misogyny....

Women and men coming together to tackle mental health. Less stigma for male care workers and female physical workers.

Mental health isn't a one term umbrella. It affects men and women differently. Whilst we should be understanding in general of anyone suffering with MH it's not womens job as a society to fix violent males mental health.

More representation of men and women working together on TV and sexist programmes which fit stereotypes done away with.

Excellent suggestion. Let's start with Drag Race and go from there.

2 is a start. Il try again next time to work harder to fit the MN standards.