To think that most men do respect women

[katieloves]

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

[quote RootyT00t]@Pumperthepumper sorry can you clarify, you think we should DISREGARD 86 dead fathers, sons, husband and friends a week? I'm sure that's not what you meant.[/quote]
Disregard misandry. Since you couldn’t think of a negative outcome for society aside from leaving threads on social media.

I posted many arguments up thread. I’ve just not been on for a couple of hours because I spent the afternoon with my family. Came back to see you’ve had a productive Saturday spewing misogyny on the internet.

@lifeturnsonadime

But the statement that most men don't respect women is a sexist statement.

You see I don't think it is a sexist statement.

You might if you have been fortunate not to experience misogyny as a thread throughout your life be in the way you were parented (to be kind), subjected to sexual abuse from comments on the street to rape, in the workplace, in the way you are treated by agencies as the female parent of disabled children as opposed to the dad.

If you see it as a sexist statement then consider the sexism that women who believe it must have seen to have an alternative view.

As I stated earlier misogyny is really the only acceptable form of abuse in this country.

Sexism is anything which makes a judgement or prejudice against someone based on their sex.

So ....it's sexism.

Join the club. I derail it cause I'm self indulgent and a man
I guess only a man could disagree that men only rule the world!

@Carolina24

I posted many arguments up thread. I’ve just not been on for a couple of hours because I spent the afternoon with my family. Came back to see you’ve had a productive Saturday spewing misogyny on the internet.

Could you tell me how I am a misognyist?

[quote RootyT00t]@Pumperthepumper let's not pretend after your latest comment you have any interest in helping men.[/quote]
What?

@dontdisturbmenow

Join the club. I derail it cause I'm self indulgent and a man I guess only a man could disagree that men only rule the world!

Only a man would disagree with these brilliant, wonderful, oh so clever, feminist echo chamber bullies you see. There is no other explanation.

Could you tell me how I am a misognyist?

You’ve had countless posters explain it to you - what’s going to make you listen to me over them?

@Pumperthepumper I only referred to misandry' on this thread. Obviously. Even you don't think I think that's the biggest problem.

Anything else would be derailing, which don't disturb and me have been told not to do, and we wouldn't like to get in trouble again.

@Carolina24

Could you tell me how I am a misognyist?

You’ve had countless posters explain it to you - what’s going to make you listen to me over them?

If you make a coherent argument apart from telling me I'm a man, I hate all women, and that I am a whatabouter, that would be new.

Sexism is anything which makes a judgement or prejudice against someone based on their sex.

No it's lived experience.

It's not prejudgement.

@BrumBoo

But the statement that most men don't respect women is a sexist statement.

How is it sexist if it's true? Men respect women on their own terms, most men still end up referring to women as bitches, or Karens, share jokes and memes about us in that vein, hold awful stereotypical views about us, have insulting ideas about how it 'feels to be a woman', think that women overract to being 'chatted up' in various gross and inappropriate manner, think they're owed sex and have been overly pushy about in at some point in their lives, just so many examples of how men who think they're respectful of women have at some point been horribly disrespectful of them at some point and still cannot acknowledge it. Because the idea of men being 'disrespectful' has been reduced to 'well I didn't rape, hit or kill a woman so I'm really not that bad'.

Sexism, homophobia and racism does not become not so just because it's true, Brum.

You have no evidence for most men thinking those things.

[quote RootyT00t]@Pumperthepumper I only referred to misandry' on this thread. Obviously. Even you don't think I think that's the biggest problem.

Anything else would be derailing, which don't disturb and me have been told not to do, and we wouldn't like to get in trouble again.[/quote]
I think we’re going in circles here. We can probably disregard misandry because you brought it up and even you can’t think of any major problems connected with it.

So! Male violence! What can we as a society do about it?

"How is it sexist if it's true?"

In the real world, it's not true.

In toxic echochamber mumsnetoland, obviously, every man should be locked up, including my 2 boys and DH who by virtue of being male are obviously complete arseholes just waiting for me to be out of earshot before calling us all cunts.

The reason someone said that the title is forgotten is because your brigade find it acceptable to come on this thread and argue with OP that men aren't respectful and go on about women even though this is about MEN but have a problem with us coming to threads about women to stick up for men.
I wasn't aware I was in a brigade.

A thread saying 'AIBU to think that most men respect women' as a thread is going to get people saying yes and no. That's how AIBU works. The OP asks and people say yes and no, as has happened throughout the thread.

But, just for added clarity, from my first post on this thread:

I do agree that the vast majority of men won't be violent to women, and most men won't be out and out misogynists, however, we live in a society where disrespect to women is normalised, the idea that women come second years its head once children arrive and society has entrenched privilege for men which is based on lacking respect for women.

Then again, as you put it you go on threads about women's struggles to 'stick up for men'.

@lifeturnsonadime

Sexism is anything which makes a judgement or prejudice against someone based on their sex.

No it's lived experience.

It's not prejudgement.

It's your lived experience. But it's a hollow argument because the poor sods who dare to say on here they haven't had certain experiences are piled on and bullied off.

@LolaSmiles

The reason someone said that the title is forgotten is because your brigade find it acceptable to come on this thread and argue with OP that men aren't respectful and go on about women even though this is about MEN but have a problem with us coming to threads about women to stick up for men. I wasn't aware I was in a brigade.

A thread saying 'AIBU to think that most men respect women' as a thread is going to get people saying yes and no. That's how AIBU works. The OP asks and people say yes and no, as has happened throughout the thread.

But, just for added clarity, from my first post on this thread:

I do agree that the vast majority of men won't be violent to women, and most men won't be out and out misogynists, however, we live in a society where disrespect to women is normalised, the idea that women come second years its head once children arrive and society has entrenched privilege for men which is based on lacking respect for women.

Then again, as you put it you go on threads about women's struggles to 'stick up for men'.

Yes, that's how it should work.

Yet, if I present the other side on a female related issue, I'm not allowed to, can you really not see the irony?

supercee
I'm not a toxic angry feminist because I think discussions should be had regarding the male class and their behaviour towards women.

Discussions do need to be had. There is no denying there is a problem but these threads attract people whose own characteristics are in line with those of whom they claim to despise.
The inability to argue a point without resorting to aggression. Belittling and bullying those with a different point of view.
Pack mentality, sneering and putting others down when they dare to disagree.

Bloke here. The truth, I’m afraid is that most blokes don’t even like women.

I’ve been fortunate to work and study with women all my life. A lot of blokes are very intimidated at that prospect.

@Whenthesunshines

supercee I'm not a toxic angry feminist because I think discussions should be had regarding the male class and their behaviour towards women.

Discussions do need to be had. There is no denying there is a problem but these threads attract people whose own characteristics are in line with those of whom they claim to despise.
The inability to argue a point without resorting to aggression. Belittling and bullying those with a different point of view.
Pack mentality, sneering and putting others down when they dare to disagree.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

You have no evidence for most men thinking those things.

The evidence comes from how most women are treated every day in society. Just because you choose not to see it, doesn't mean it's not true.

I also want to hear how you suggest we deal with the large issue of male violence as a whole?

In toxic echochamber mumsnetoland, obviously, every man should be locked up, including my 2 boys and DH who by virtue of being male are obviously complete arseholes just waiting for me to be out of earshot before calling us all cunts

It's ridiculous isn't it.

I'm thankful I don't know any of these women IRL.

It's your lived experience. But it's a hollow argument because the poor sods who dare to say on here they haven't had certain experiences are piled on and bullied off.

But that's not quite what's happened is it?

You have come on here and said that it is a sexist statement based on your experience and accused posters of being an 'echochamber' of misandry and said that men are not responsible as a class for male violence.

I can accept that you haven't experienced it so you don't believe that most men are like that but you don't accept that most women have experienced differently are do not hold sexist views. 76% of the responders on here think differently to you, that doesn't make Mumsnet a hotbed of misandry, it's much more likely that 76% of women have experienced everyday misogyny. I'd love to know the age breakdown of these stats as I expect the older women get the more they recognise that most men do not really respect them.

@BrumBoo

You have no evidence for most men thinking those things.

The evidence comes from how most women are treated every day in society. Just because you choose not to see it, doesn't mean it's not true.

I also want to hear how you suggest we deal with the large issue of male violence as a whole?

Education. From earlier ages. Discussions in schools, youth centres, young offenders.

Teaching gender in schools (something which some schools do but many of you would disagree with)

Tougher sentences for offenders. Changes in legislation so that questions like what were you wearing or drinking are not asked in the manner that they are. Life sentences for rapists.

Better communication between men and women. Misandry' being taken as seriously as misogny.

Women and men coming together to tackle mental health. Less stigma for male care workers and female physical workers.

More representation of men and women working together on TV and sexist programmes which fit stereotypes done away with.

@lifeturnsonadime

It's your lived experience. But it's a hollow argument because the poor sods who dare to say on here they haven't had certain experiences are piled on and bullied off.

But that's not quite what's happened is it?

You have come on here and said that it is a sexist statement based on your experience and accused posters of being an 'echochamber' of misandry and said that men are not responsible as a class for male violence.

I can accept that you haven't experienced it so you don't believe that most men are like that but you don't accept that most women have experienced differently are do not hold sexist views. 76% of the responders on here think differently to you, that doesn't make Mumsnet a hotbed of misandry, it's much more likely that 76% of women have experienced everyday misogyny. I'd love to know the age breakdown of these stats as I expect the older women get the more they recognise that most men do not really respect them.

Sorry life when did I ever say I haven't experienced it?