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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that most men do respect women

999 replies

katieloves · 13/03/2021 08:36

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

OP posts:
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6
bluebluezoo · 13/03/2021 14:23

I know a lot of men, I work mostly with men, my best friend is a man. I agree most men respect women.
I’ve never experienced any form of harassment, or witnessed it

If you’ve never experienced racism does that mean it doesn’t exist?

I would also say generally I haven’t experienced harrassment.

However, lack of respect from men who find they need to explain how electricity works to me, bank managers who are surprised at my grasp of interest rates, the car salesmen who talks to DH about fuel efficiency and tells me what pretty colours they have.

To works conferences where I was there as an academic but referred to as “decorative” by a senior medic. Where my male friend and colleague decided he fancied me and made a pass, even though he was married.

Little things, which can be dismissed as meeting one too many idiots. But each on it’s own show a complete lack of respect for me as a female.

Since we married DH has suddenly got it. He knows my academic background, yet when we’re together every single time it will be him who is asked the questions or made the sales pitch to.

The thing that really shows men’s attitudes are my title. Phone salesmen are the worst- you can hear the switch in their brain when they ask if it’s Miss or Mrs, hear Dr than realise they’ve been speaking to me as if I was an idiot for the last half hour.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 13/03/2021 14:24

Given the very large numbers of women sharing their experiences of male aggression on a sliding scale from insulting speech right up to murder, why is there such an insistence on effectively denying their experiences in order not to offend any man who may be a paragon if virtue?

Three different men have put their hands round my throat to "bring me under control" / assert their authority / imply threat in my life. All were "mostly" non-violent men, whose nice reputations placed the blame for their aggression squarely on my shoulders for instigating it.

The first was my Step Father when I was 14. I had been arguing and disrespectful to my Mum. Typical teenage stuff. He pinned me up against a wall by my throat. I can't remember what my Mum did / thought. I do remember an explanation that drinking a particular bourbon caused him to behave irrationally, and if only I had not been so troublesome, it would never have happened.

My ex Dh drugged me without my knowledge. When I discovered it, and he admitted him, I ended our marriage on the spot. My fear and shock that my "loving" (controlling) husband had no concept of boundaries and had actively put me at risk caused me to have a psychotic breakdown and resulted in a 28 day section. No authority figure was interested. When I was released I had to return to our family home to retrieve my belongings, which he obstructed because he, and his family believed I was over-reacting to something that signified he needed help and support. In our bedroom, he sat and watched me. It was over crowded and when I had to squeeze past him he reached up and ever so gently put his hands round my throat with an eerily smug and beatific smile on his face. I froze. After a few moments he let go and I bolted. I learned another lesson.

At a small family business where I did admin a situation arose that lead to me justifiably wanting to resign. I left my letter on the bosses desk. The next day when I was outside smoking, as he arrived I asked if he'd read it in order to discuss notice and terms. He jokingly - I'm told it was jokingly - put his hands round my throat in a throttling gesture to express his frustration, told me in was such a valuable asset he wasn't prepared to let me go and he had torn up my letter. Consensus from colleagues, family and some friends were that the job and money were most important so I should let it go. He was essentially a nice bloke and culturally passionate and gregarious. Like an idiot I stayed until I was able to change my circumstances. I learned a lesson. My DP offered to go and deal with him. I declined. I didn't want to be responsible for him getting arrested for defending me. I didn't want an accusation that I was stirring the pot and secretly perpetuating and enjoying drama.

I'm glad that so many women here have not experienced such incidents, and those that have, I hear you.

The lesson I have learned is that these experiences are not that bad. Until they are. If the end result is murder, it's too late. And a mans overall reputation trumps a "momentary "lapse" and any effect it has on a female victim every bloody time.

Pickupapigeon · 13/03/2021 14:26

@RootyT00t That is my experience. It’s a broad cross section of females of different races and social backgrounds spanning 3 generations. I think if many of us were to ask the question of our friends and families we would find the same. Especially if we are careful not to dismiss sexual harassment as ‘banter’, wolf whistling as ‘flattering’, gender stereotypical attitudes towards household responsibilities, watching porn as harmless etc.

OhWhyNot · 13/03/2021 14:28

RootyT00t

Yes moaning about being possibly misunderstood not accused than rather the reality of male violence against females

The fragile male ego

tashac89 · 13/03/2021 14:28

I've read a lot of threads about issues with women over the years. Usually about how bitchy we are as a gender or how family courts usually favour the mother. And yet, never in these threads or conversations have a load of women gone 'well men are like this too!'
Why is it we can't have a discussion just about male violence?

supercee · 13/03/2021 14:29

@tashac89

I've read a lot of threads about issues with women over the years. Usually about how bitchy we are as a gender or how family courts usually favour the mother. And yet, never in these threads or conversations have a load of women gone 'well men are like this too!' Why is it we can't have a discussion just about male violence?

Exactly. I can't get my head around this too.

Twintub · 13/03/2021 14:30

The comment about men helping wanting sex was not universally agreed with on this thread so again not a valid point. It’s just a fact that men do not call out their friends in men only environments even if they think it’s sexist or derogatory.

As many people have male family they love I highly doubt theRe is a lack of concern over male mental health If my facts are correct men are more prone to suicide and as a mother of a DS I am hugely concerned

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 14:30

@OhWhyNot

RootyT00t

Yes moaning about being possibly misunderstood not accused than rather the reality of male violence against females

The fragile male ego

As opposed to the strong female ego which has now decided every man is a potential sexual attacker despite the evidence telling us very much otherwise?
RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 14:31

Well, that's because males aren't characteristically 'bitchy' and courts do favour the mother, so I'm not sure what arguments we could make.

SerpentHolder · 13/03/2021 14:31

Hi OP. I think YABU.
I've just read that Sarah Everard's body was found in a bag and she had to be identified by dental records. I've also read that 30 women and a little girl have been murdered so far this year, and we're barely into mid-March. 90% of murders are committed by men - against other men as well as women.
Yet you choose this day/week to start a thread on how you're concerned about 'vilification of men'. Don't you think that's a bit tone deaf? I have a husband I love who would never hurt a woman. Brothers, cousins. I totally agree that a lot of men don't disrespect women and would never think to hurt them. But enough do for there to be a problem. What would be your ideas for solving this? Thanks.

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 14:32

@SerpentHolder

Hi OP. I think YABU. I've just read that Sarah Everard's body was found in a bag and she had to be identified by dental records. I've also read that 30 women and a little girl have been murdered so far this year, and we're barely into mid-March. 90% of murders are committed by men - against other men as well as women. Yet you choose this day/week to start a thread on how you're concerned about 'vilification of men'. Don't you think that's a bit tone deaf? I have a husband I love who would never hurt a woman. Brothers, cousins. I totally agree that a lot of men don't disrespect women and would never think to hurt them. But enough do for there to be a problem. What would be your ideas for solving this? Thanks.
She's started the thread because of the onslaught of threads towards men, where we were all told to start our own threads or conform to the echo chamber.
BiBabbles · 13/03/2021 14:32

@katieloves

To all of you aggressively shouting that ALL men are violent, porn obsessed, raping, murdering misogynists you really do nothing for the cause. You’re actually really offensive.
And saying most men do respect women is a meaningless assertion and really does nothing for any cause either. Even if we could quantify it, which we can't, 51% would still be most and still leave a lot of disrespectful men - whether those men have the power to use their disrespect to harm is largely societal, not individual.

Saying not my spouse or not my son does nothing for any cause. I don't think we get anywhere by making it individualistic. Even if our sons aren't actively part of the problem, what does that do? Might make some feel better, but socially, it does little if anything if that respect doesn't have any action behind it.

Yeah, some women are assholes, and many of them get away with it just like their male counterparts. Yes, just saying that most violence is male-perpetrated doesn't do much. Just being against something doesn't do much. It takes plans and action - difficulty being, to reduce male-perpetrated violence, women need men on side and actively working on this too to rework the systems of society to better stand against perpetrators of violence and to stop dismissing suffering.

Women being nice about this or harsh about this doesn't really make much of a difference - men aren't flies. Women standing up for ourselves sometimes requires us to be harsh and to not take men at their word, and that doesn't always protect us either. Until societal systems can be trusted to stand-up for us, then yeah, no matter how much we think someone respects us, most of the men in our lives will have a higher risk profile compared to the women and have the power to harm us without real repercussions and we will get blamed for the harm we suffer. That's what many are talking with 'all men'.

SmileEachDay · 13/03/2021 14:33

What utter nonsense! Women are not literally dying because of patriarch system. It's actually quite ironic as more Jan more women are taking leadership roles in the NHS, probably more than any other sectors

The NHS are currently launching a service wide initiative beginning with a survey that collects the experiences of women under health service care. You know why they’ve done that? Because the NHS have recognised that women get a worse deal, as a class, than men.

OhWhyNot · 13/03/2021 14:33

And I can assure you Rooty there is far far more women working in male mh than there are men (this is my area of work)

And working along with men to make changes it’s not male driven alone

MolyHolyGuacamole · 13/03/2021 14:33

YABU. HTH.

tashac89 · 13/03/2021 14:33

@RootyT00t

Well, that's because males aren't characteristically 'bitchy' and courts do favour the mother, so I'm not sure what arguments we could make.
Neither are women as characteristically as violent or sexually aggressive, and yet, here we are..
RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 14:34

@OhWhyNot

And I can assure you Rooty there is far far more women working in male mh than there are men (this is my area of work)

And working along with men to make changes it’s not male driven alone

What's that got to do with anything?

I agree with that.
I'm really passionate about male mental health.
I was talking about the posters on here who tell us it's not our problem yet seem to expect men to stand up for them.

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 14:34

But what's your point Tasha? No one is claiming that women are as much of a threat sexuallu or physically.

babbaloushka · 13/03/2021 14:35

Poor little men. How ever will they cope? I suppose they could put in some earphones, blast some music and go for a nice late night walk to clear their heads.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 13/03/2021 14:37

Despite the experiences I posted up thread, I do not believe every man 8s a potential sexual attacker. However I do believe that aggression aimed at women by men is always a risk, whatever form it takes. Society tells me it is my responsibility to avoid provoking it, when provocation can be a quite reasonable request to do or not do something that signifies respect of my boundaries. How are we supposed to differentiate between degrees of "good men" ? And why is the societal bar for standards of male behaviour so low, yet womens are so high?

katieloves · 13/03/2021 14:38

Why is it we can't have a discussion just about male violence

We can but my point is, if you read the OP, is that it’s not ALL men. This has not been accepted however as apparently ALL men do disrespect women. By disputing this I have been accused of enabling men to abuse women and I am also the reason why there are rapists free on our streetsConfused

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 13/03/2021 14:38

She's started the thread because of the onslaught of threads towards men

An ‘onslaught’ that has happened because Sarah Everard was kidnapped and is now dead, with Christ knows what happening in between those times. By a man.

This case has made many women think “that could easily, easily have been me. It’s made many women think about the kinds of behaviour that they’ve experienced from men in their lives, or strangers.

It’s made many women think about the situation women are still in as a class - both here and worldwide.

I don’t think #namalt is an appropriate response to that. I think that Sarah Everard should be centred. I think women should be centred. I don’t think we should have to dilute that.

OhWhyNot · 13/03/2021 14:39

The point is women have always had to fight the system to get support with no male (or minimal) help

Men don’t need to fight the system as much (well white men that really applies to)

Why shouldn’t women only support women when we have to fight so much for changes

Twintub · 13/03/2021 14:39

@RootyT00t the only thing echoing is you mainly sorry I just don’t think you have said one thing that makes me think your argument is valid here on this thread. It’s not because you are making an alternative point So not conforming to a narrative it is because I fundamentally don’t agree with your point in this context. You And at @katieloves are cherry picking the odd comment that suits your agenda and ignoring the 76% who don’t agree.

GreenChips · 13/03/2021 14:40

I was talking to my teen DD this morning and I said I was heartened by how many men I knew had been sharing things on social media etc

And she said to me

How many times have you ever said "I only know decent women" or "none of the women I know have ever assaulted a women"

Then said "you aren't pleased in the same that your female friends are doing things on social media you just except it. You expect them to be decent so expect it of your male friends too. Don't applaud a fish for swimming."

It did actually make me think and she is totally right.

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