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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that most men do respect women

999 replies

katieloves · 13/03/2021 08:36

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop, but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault. It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it.

OP posts:
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6
Somethingkindaoooo · 13/03/2021 12:24

@katieloves

I think the presentation of disrespect has changed , but not the underlying intent. Not for all men,but it is still alive and well.

Your DD is 14? Mine was around that age when she started wearing make up, more form fitting clothes... without fail, there would be some creep double her ago- if not more, checking out her ass. Often they were with their own daughters.

It is at work, when men ( often in power) fall over themselves over the young pretty 20 something. Can't do enough for them ( and so are 'great guys'.) The same ignore older women's opinions/ requests.

It's an ex head of department who only seemed to hire women who looked good in a mini skirt

Its the ex colleague who befriends only female pretty (young adult) but no one raises an eyebrow

Its the male IT department who dismiss you because they think middle aged women are stupid.

Its having medical issues dismissed if they are linked in any way to the female reproductive system.

We can all go on and on and fucking on. But these things get ignored, because, hey- they aren't smacking out ass while asking us to fetch them a coffee.

Sometimes that ' respect' is just a veneer

User133847 · 13/03/2021 12:25

@RootyT00t

What are woman ruled by?
Different hormones.
Wehaveanunderstanding · 13/03/2021 12:30

[quote Somethingkindaoooo]@katieloves

I think the presentation of disrespect has changed , but not the underlying intent. Not for all men,but it is still alive and well.

Your DD is 14? Mine was around that age when she started wearing make up, more form fitting clothes... without fail, there would be some creep double her ago- if not more, checking out her ass. Often they were with their own daughters.

It is at work, when men ( often in power) fall over themselves over the young pretty 20 something. Can't do enough for them ( and so are 'great guys'.) The same ignore older women's opinions/ requests.

It's an ex head of department who only seemed to hire women who looked good in a mini skirt

Its the ex colleague who befriends only female pretty (young adult) but no one raises an eyebrow

Its the male IT department who dismiss you because they think middle aged women are stupid.

Its having medical issues dismissed if they are linked in any way to the female reproductive system.

We can all go on and on and fucking on. But these things get ignored, because, hey- they aren't smacking out ass while asking us to fetch them a coffee.

Sometimes that ' respect' is just a veneer[/quote]
^ This is such a good post and so true. This has been going on for years and isn't getting any better imho precisely because it is not always overt but nonetheless accepted as the norm.

LunaHeather · 13/03/2021 12:32

@Firstbellini

Ineedaholiday, I do have an adult son. He’s aware himself that he struggles with how he behaves in relationships and is trying to work on it.
Interested to know what that means.
Twintub · 13/03/2021 12:36

Men have lauded it over woman all through the centuries in particular in terms of religion And power. Think of other cultures where woman need to cover up least the men can’t help themselves. The stuff we are discussing is just the tip of a massive bloody iceberg. It is really difficult to get equality when we are the ones bearing children. How many threads have you seen where SAHM does everything now she is splitting up and Perhaps not married so entitled to nothing. Husband was the bread winner but no one thought to pay into her pension for the lost years working or the inability to get promoted etc etc due to rising children.

@RootyT00t this is so much deeper than some woman being disrespectful

OppsUpsSide · 13/03/2021 12:39

Of the men I know, the one who shouts loudest about this, is the one who frequently attacked me in my own home and strangled me in-front of my daughter.
I’m sure there are plenty of perfectly lovely men out there, I just don’t know who they are.

LunaHeather · 13/03/2021 12:41

[quote katieloves]@GCSE2024

If you are not teaching your DD to be wary of men you are doing her a disservice

What a sad outlook. I teach my daughter to respect and stand up for herself. She is much better at doing that than my ds. I worry more about him.[/quote]
Agree you are doing her a disservice, mum - admittedly not dad - taught me to be super suspicious from a young age and I think I've escaped a few situations unscathed. A young girl who wasn't warned might not have been able to.

LunaHeather · 13/03/2021 12:42

@OppsUpsSide

Of the men I know, the one who shouts loudest about this, is the one who frequently attacked me in my own home and strangled me in-front of my daughter. I’m sure there are plenty of perfectly lovely men out there, I just don’t know who they are.
Yes A man who harrassed me at work - and was FURIOUS at being reported even though there were witnesses, that's how much he expected to get away with it - is all over social media posting about what a wonderful feminist he is.
BiBabbles · 13/03/2021 12:48

@dontdisturbmenow

*Yes sure they do in front of you. Meanwhile with mates they are watching porn, rating girls using foul language. I have 2 DD’s and they say every single boy they know dies this* What a sad sad use of the world. I can say with absolute certainty that my two sons have never done that because they'd find no satisfaction in doing so. Your daughter needs to hang around better role models.
Our children's peers are rarely their role models, even with monkey see monkey do mimicry going on, and often there is little choice in the other children in their class or neighbourhood.

My DD2 was 7 the first time a boy a couple of years older sexually threatened her, talked about shoving items into her. A bunch of other boys laughed. She wasn't hanging around him, it was just another kid in the local park, a big group of them circled a small group of girls, judged them, and threatened my daughter.

Now thankfully in that case there was some small resolution in that the boy receieved punishment and my DD never saw him again -- but many of our girls don't get that. They get the remarks dismissed, told they misunderstood, blamed, told they just need to not hang around those boys even when they have to remain with the perpetrator in class. This goes into adulthood where by then many have learned that the social systems around us aren't going to protect us or help us the way we need which emboldens those who enjoy harming us. Some schools and communities are putting in place ways to do better, but too many are failing in this.

Some boys do get the same - my DS1 was 15 when he experienced sexual harrassment at college by adult women that left him badly frightened, the college dealt with it well, but even with that, we know largely peer-on-peer abuse is a sexed issue of males over females. This was a case where the power imbalanced was adults over a child.

I hope the college would do the same if they had been the same age, but we can't ignore how social power plays a role, even when it's just that little boys have learned they can make terrible frightening remarks about girls, get laughs from their friends, and too many adults give lip-service about the shame of it, but nothing negative actually happens to them. The girls are too often left floudering on their own with families not knowing what to do.

After the incident my daughter experienced, the effect it had on her and her sister who was also present when it happened was rough on everyone, including my oldest son. There were a few years there where he expressed ideas that boys just hurt girls, men just hurt women, how much he hated that and I had to find ways to help him come to a more balanced view from that loathing. Finding him more male role models and ways to feel he could do good while also helping my daughters be able to express their feelings freely too was a challenge. He benefitted from his volunteer and helping experiences, they benefitted from having single sex and mixed sex spaces to talk and help and feel part of a better community. It isn't easy, everyone deals with shite, the issues are how the systems around us enable us to come through it better or put up barriers to that, do they shut down the abuse or do they empower it?

I have no idea if most men respect women - there are a lot of men out there. Honestly, I'm not sure I care on an individual level - my concern is more about how social systems make the disrespect acceptable so it escalates so they've the power to use their disrespect to harm. We've a system where most protected characteristics are also protected by hate crime legislation - but sex isn't even when we know the role it plays in violence. We have systems in place in schools to help prevent radicalisation, but that boy who threatened my daughter, those boys who laughed, have that not been radicalised in how they think about girls? Should there not be more concern about why ~9-10 year old boys would think that behaviour and language was good fun? That my DD was able to go out without those boys doesn't change that those boys also need better too if anything is to really be made better.

Twintub · 13/03/2021 12:56

@RootyT00t

And now I think of hormones woman are now having another fight in the workplace due to the menopause another thing me. Would like to brush under the carpet as it effects a woman’s ability to work. Men and woman are different but we shouldn’t be penalised because of it. It’s crazy woman actually have the power we literally give them life LOL

PigeonPants · 13/03/2021 12:58

I’m concerned about the vilification of men that we’re hearing a lot about. I haven't heard about it, do you have examples/links?

I know there’s some men who disrespect women and this absolutely needs to stop... Agreed, but how?

...but equally I’ve witnessed women being equally disrespectful to men. Equally, how? Like 50% of the sex based abuse is male actor, female target and the other half is female actor, male target? And that happens in a context in which men and women are perfectly equal? Or it's adjusted for equalities like an adult women having significantly less brute strength than an adult man, or what?

I’ve seen plenty of women feeling up men etc. on a night out and it being laughed off. If this was reversed it would be considered assault.
I'm sorry to hear this. it's wrong. No one should have their bodily integrity violated like that. In England and in Scotland this would be equally prosecutable if the victim were targeted for being a man or if the victim were targeted for being a woman. Are there initiatives where you are to try to address this through a similar framework of law?

It feels like all men are being accused of treating women badly and I just don’t see it. Neither do I. What I have seen over the past few days (in a UK context) is people angry about the systemic abuse of vulnerable women which happens within a framework of sex ineqality, and also the ridiculous Hate Bill passed in Scotland which took out sex as a protected characteristic while retaining all the others from the UK Equality Act 2010 - which, by the way, would have protected men targeted for being men just as much as women targeted for being women, and now protects neither.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 13/03/2021 12:59

If men and women are both ruled by hormones, please explain why society in general sends the message to men and women alike that mens hormones are so powerful they can't be blamed for hormone driven transgressions, yet women, who deal with a monthly cycle of fluctuating hormones that cause physical changes, extreme discomfort, and emotional dysregulation, are told it's just part of being a woman and must be controlled by them so that wider society aren't inconvenienced by them?

Why does the medical profession resist investigation of problems perceived to be hormonal in women until they are literally unable to function for a good proportion of their working lives and risk disadvantage in the workplace because of it?

Why is there such resistance to examining all of this for the wider benefit of society? Both scientifically and socially?

If both male and female hormones are such powerful drivers of behaviour, why do we shrug off the former as a fact of life that can't be controlled yet the latter must be, when the former apparently leads to far greater harm to other people.

Why are women sentenced more harshly for crimes than men?

Why, in this enlightened, inclusive, rational, scientific age are we still at the mercy of these things?

Why after years and years of women patiently explaining and demonstrating their right to be equal humans are we still fighting the battle of the sexes?

Chanjer · 13/03/2021 13:01

Any bloke who's an outright HEY LADIES I AM YOUR ALLY is looking to get laid IME

Chooseausernamenow · 13/03/2021 13:02

@dontdisturbmenow

MNers hate men!

My experience of men over 50 years doesn't make them as a whole more disrespectful than women. In the work arena, the only bullying I have experienced was by other women.

The worse disrespect I've seen online is without a doubt here.

I partly agree. My fifty odd years experience show me that most men I’ve come across personally are decent. Professionally (law enforcement) not so much.

That said, as horrendous as this murder is, women are far more at risk from the men they know then they are from strangers. What is truly horrific is that this murder could have been carried out by a Police Officer. The one person who a female should feel safe to come across on a dark night.

Thecatonthemat · 13/03/2021 13:03

Pressed the wrong button . Mortified as I think you are unreasonable in not seeing what is in front of you, on these threads. I will not be n apologist for men’s behaviour.

debbiegotthejobandwelldone · 13/03/2021 13:03

@Chanjer

Any bloke who's an outright HEY LADIES I AM YOUR ALLY is looking to get laid IME
You are probably right

but that's not the kind of men I am surrounded by. Some posters seem to live in a stereotype. It's sad if it's true.

bellinisurge · 13/03/2021 13:06

If you knew which men were safe and which were a physical threat to you it would be easier to say. They don't wear a special hat. So you have to assume they all are until you risk assess it otherwise.
If they struggle with that maybe they should be doing something other than bleating "not all men".

LolaSmiles · 13/03/2021 13:08

Any bloke who's an outright HEY LADIES I AM YOUR ALLY is looking to get laid IME
It's actions vs words.

I don't care if a man shares something feminist on social media or claims to be an ally if his actions, especially actions when it gets tough, don't match.

If a man says 'I hear what you say and I'm on your side, I'll fight this with you' and his actions show he is a man in favour of equality then that's not trying to get laid. We also need more men in this camp to normalise respect and equality.

FinnualaLikesChocolate · 13/03/2021 13:09

YABU
OP, I am so tired of people like you. Look at the state of the world today - the WORLD, not just your shitty little home town that everyone wants to escape from and where you once saw a drunk woman grope a man's arse in some grungy pub - and then tell me you 'don't see it'. People like you are part of the problem. People like you are enablers.
Go away.

debbiegotthejobandwelldone · 13/03/2021 13:11

and I am so tired of people like you FinnualaLikesChocolate so full of hatred and bitterness you fight so hard to brainwash girls into being victims, oppressed, inferiors

MessAllOver · 13/03/2021 13:16

You only need to look at the state of maternity care in this country to see that women aren't respected. Even in an area of healthcare where the needs of women and babies should be foremost, they are literally dying because of an underfunded, patriarchal system that belittles women's suffering and denies them a voice. A woman who questions or complains about being in pain or something not being right is often dismissed as "moaning" or "being precious"... and too many of these women and their babies then end up dead.

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 13:19

@Chanjer

Any bloke who's an outright HEY LADIES I AM YOUR ALLY is looking to get laid IME
Of course.

Because men only think with their dick.

Misandry at its finest.

RootyT00t · 13/03/2021 13:20

@FinnualaLikesChocolate

YABU OP, I am so tired of people like you. Look at the state of the world today - the WORLD, not just your shitty little home town that everyone wants to escape from and where you once saw a drunk woman grope a man's arse in some grungy pub - and then tell me you 'don't see it'. People like you are part of the problem. People like you are enablers. Go away.
We aren't enablers.

We are not responsible for these mens behaviour and it's pretty outrageous to suggest we are, just because we aren't out and out misandrists.

Hopeisnotastrategy · 13/03/2021 13:21

@sar302

I'm not concerned for them, no. I have a wonderful husband, a great dad, lovely male friends, AND the capacity to understand that men - as a sex - still present a very real threat to women across the world.
This, absolutely across the board. It has been my belief for many years now that there is a huge degree of naivety among many women as to how many men think it appropriate to talk about them when they are not there.

Mr Hope is not one of those men and there are some good ones out there. However there are for too many "good guys " who just pay lip service to equal rights for women, or who don't intervene when women are being treated disrespectfully. 😡

Coffeeandcocopops · 13/03/2021 13:21

My lovely kind son used the word hoe to describe a girl. I went bloody ballistic. He. Showed me his friends group what’s app. The word was used constantly by all of the boys. Instead of the word girl. This is a group of polite grammar school boys. We had serous words about it. I think now he just knows not to use the word in front of me. So no great result really.

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