Davina McCall's tweet

[SummerWhisper]

Davina McCall tweeted that female abduction / murder is extremely rare and that this level of fearmongering isn't good for men's mental health.

I don't understand why she is attempting to shift the narrative back to how men are feeling after yet another woman's life has been brutally ended BY A MAN.

For fuck's sake, Davina, we have a prominent voice this week, a huge platform to raise awareness about how most of us have to make so many micro- and macro-adjustments to allow for men's violence and here you are, putting men's health in the centre of all this.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking she should apologise and remove her tweet?

@Kimye4eva

But, as other threads have documented, women are sexually harassed and assaulted by men an awful lot. So much so that the #notallmen tag really doesn't ring true. I mean, of course it won't be quite all men, a few wont, but it is the vast majority at some point in their lives - especially in their teens/twenties. These men that do it - most men - they people's brothers, sons, husbands. Why shouldn't it be bad for them to hear this from us

I’m sorry @BoomBoomsCousin but if you really believe this to be true you must have some truly awful family and friends in your life. Of course it’s not the majority of men. What a ridiculous statement.

Really? You think it’s just a few? All the incidents that women experience in all the places that they experience it, and you think it’s not most men?

I’m in my 50s and don’t see much of it now. But growing up the 80s and 90s it was endemic. I could describe incidents I saw in school for all but a few boys in my year. I could describe incidents I saw that my brother and his friends took part in. I can describe dozens of incidents that I experienced from all sorts of men in the town I grew up in. And there were many I can’t describe because it happened so much and it was so normalised only a few standout. None of them were ‘big’ things (at least they didn’t seem like it at the time) - a slapped arse, objectifying comments, attempts to coerce sex. But they happened all the time and not always from the same few men.

I don’t see much of now, the guys I know who I have witnessed doing these things are now respectable teachers, mechanics, doctors, salesmen. I’m fairly sure most of them would claim innocence if you asked them if they’d ever harassed a women. They ‘like’ the outraged and upset Facebook posts of their wives and female friends that have gone up in the last day or so. They partners and daughters of their own. I’m sure most of them don’t do it anymore, but a few of them probably still do, of course they’ll be savvier about where and when I suspect. I haven’t seen it from someone I know in a long time. But I hear the same sort of banter when I stray into pubs with single 20 somethings now, and younger women still say it happens a lot, so I don’t think the culture has changed much.

I wonder if this is because of the huge lengths women go to avoid risk situations. If women just did what they want, carefree of the risk, I suspect the rates would rise for them too

Maybe, but we have to recognise many men also take the same precautions. As said on a previous thread, my husband commented he’d not do a three mile walk, through Clapham Common, in the dark, alone, to Brixton. I think many men take the same precautions, and arguably if they didn’t, their stats would also be higher. So it’s a circular argument.

Men kill way more than women do. Men on men violence is a much bigger issue in terms of stranger violence snd murder,, most men who kill women are known to the women, and mostly it’s their partners.., women on women also happens, and more rarely, women on men. Both genders also perpetrate sexual violence.

I think we all sadly recall the beyond horrific very recent case of Angela wrightson who was tortured and murdered in her own home by two teenage girls.

@BoomBoomsCousin, before I even got to this part of your post, I was thinking "slapped arse", because that is the low level sort of thing most women have experienced when out and about.

I'm 37 fwiw and I've had an older colleague smack my arse at a work party and the same thing in clubs, even once from an acquaintance who did it after a few drinks in a club and then fell over himself apologising, imediately. Not saying these people are evil, but this happens a lot. It is not that unusual. And I had a naice upbringing, the acquaintance was at a naice university with me and the colleague was on a six figure salary. These are not just unusual people from dodgy areas. It is common throughout the male population ime. Not ALL men, but that doesn't mean I have to not mentioned the ones who are that way in case I hurt a man's feelings .

my husband commented he’d not do a three mile walk, through Clapham Common, in the dark, alone, to Brixton

Why? Who is he scared of? Mainly men or women?

I've wondered why this murder has been so high profile too over that of Libby Squire or any other woman. My assumption is that because it happened in London and there's always a media bias. I'm glad that it is receiving so much attention to the issue of female harassment, but absolutely don't agree the majority of men are a danger to women

Hername yes indeed. The common denominator is the vast majority of all violent crime is committed by MEN.

And on top of the threat of a chance murder by a stranger or at the hands of the man we love at home, way before that women will endure hundreds of other micro aggressions, every year, from a young age, many of them sexual in nature, by MEN.

If we assume NAMALT as no one here has said that .... why do so many people have a problem with this reality?

What a let down she is.

Centring men at this time is not a good look. Like pp said she's 'pick me'. I find it disappointing that she's such a misogynist but glad she showed once again, who she is.

People should be allowed their shit opinions though & don't think she should delete it.

I remember in another job, as a hotel receptionist, my male colleague was asked by a group of older women if he'd consider doing a sexy dance for them! He was of course.

He said to me, "can you imagine if someone said that sort of thing to you? They'd be in SO much trouble". I was like , um...that is the sort of thing men say to hotel receptionists all the fucking time mate. I got hit on all the damn time in that job and sometimes verbally abused by drunken idiots, (all men). This was maybe 9 years ago, not the 70s. If people think this sort of low level thing is a rare occurrence, they may be a little sheltered tbh.

She is right. It is fearmongering to say women are always at risk all the time.

All the incidents that women experience in all the places that they experience it, and you think it’s not most men?

No, I don’t think it’s most men. Maybe it is in some communities but that’s certainly not my experience.

There’s a lot of tarring all men with the same brush going on here and probably goes some way to explaining why some people are feeling the need to express it’s not all men.

Davina makes a fair point, just another opinion to throw into the mix.

I agree with her, not all men are bad evil wife beaters and sex pests, why should my perfectly decent husband son and dad be put in the same box as the man who murdered this woman.
It’s just the same as saying all doctors murder their patients just coz Harold shipman did.
Davina is entitled to an opinion, I am entitled to an opinion, you are all entitled to an opinion it’s still a free country today - I think.

I totally agree with her....just another example of someone speaking their opinion and they will now probably be hounded and bullied to retract that opinion...and why? To please the hounders and trolls...the people who claim to be fighting some "cause" when in actual fact they are portraying themselves to be nothing else that coercive controllers....the hypocrisy in society now is astounding!

@Erkrie

People saying the vast majority of men harass and assault women.

Well either they do, or a minority of men are extremely busy. 🤔

I think there are more than 30 million men in the UK, not sure but someone will have the figures, so even a minority could be alot anything from one to 14.9 million.

These offences and the hundred of "lesser" ones - compared to murder, that is - are committed by lovely husbands, sons and fathers.

However comparisons to the hundreds of murderous doctors is original

@Doona

Why draw attention to her? There are lots of women who are all about the men.

Yes. This is exactly how I feel about this Tweet and it's depressing.

@Pinksmyfavoritecolour

I agree with her, not all men are bad evil wife beaters and sex pests, why should my perfectly decent husband son and dad be put in the same box as the man who murdered this woman. It’s just the same as saying all doctors murder their patients just coz Harold shipman did. Davina is entitled to an opinion, I am entitled to an opinion, you are all entitled to an opinion it’s still a free country today - I think.

Nobody is putting your son in the same box as a murderer. However male violence is the issue at hand as another woman has been murdered by a man.

These random attacks, kidnappings and murders are almost exclusively perpetrated by men.

So your perfectly nice son doesn't even need to be brought up!

Low level micro aggressions however, are common IME, even from nice guys sometimes. That still doesn't mean all men though. If we have to say that every time we mention anything any man does

@HerNameIsY0shimi

my husband commented he’d not do a three mile walk, through Clapham Common, in the dark, alone, to Brixton

Why? Who is he scared of? Mainly men or women?

Statistically he's more at risk of violence isn't he?

Statistically he's more at risk of violence isn't he?

Yes, male on male violence is the most common. Then it's male on women. Are you sensing a theme?

And that isn't to say it's all men, which I now have to say every time I mention male violence

I don’t agree with her but she’s absolutely entitled to share her thoughts and I think policing opposing views with aggressive responses leads us to a situation where the loudest voice is the correct one. This isn’t the case. I’d assume she’s been surrounded by good men (which in truth I have many fantastic male influences). I’m sure lots of men will agree with her.

Dh pointed out that the police are being harder on female protesters than the BLM protestors because it’s against women and they can. Dh’s brother was violently attacked when walking with a friend (group of 8 men trapped them) and dh has definitely done the key thing but even he gets that being a woman is a risk assessment every time you go for a night out and it’s different.

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/11/man-pawel-relowicz-found-guilty-hull-student-libby-squire?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16156297673676&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fuk-news%2F2021%2Ffeb%2F11%2Fman-pawel-relowicz-found-guilty-hull-student-libby-squire
This is one of the more recent cases I was thinking of, how come this attracted less attention? Because she was 'intoxicated'?

That was an awful case @Macncheeseballs. I think it did get a lot of attention at the time, but the police in that area took a long time to find the man who did it. By the time they did, the dust had settled and they still have not found Libby I don't think. So it was not considered a murder until they charged the man in question. This is what I remember, but happy to be corrected. Think it was just a missing person till recently. Because she was very drunk, there was a chance she could have wandered off somewhere and died of hypothermia or fallen into water etc etc.

She’s making a valid point and I agree with her. It’s not ok to blame ‘men’ for the violent actions of a few people.

Apologies; yes, they did find Libby, but not for months after her death.

I disagree with her but will fight for her right to say it.

I am happy that you have warned your children about me, even though I know that I would never pose a threat to them and the vast majority of other strangers pose no threat to them. SOME strangers pose a threat, so you warn you children about interacting with them en masse.