Davina McCall's tweet

[SummerWhisper]

Davina McCall tweeted that female abduction / murder is extremely rare and that this level of fearmongering isn't good for men's mental health.

I don't understand why she is attempting to shift the narrative back to how men are feeling after yet another woman's life has been brutally ended BY A MAN.

For fuck's sake, Davina, we have a prominent voice this week, a huge platform to raise awareness about how most of us have to make so many micro- and macro-adjustments to allow for men's violence and here you are, putting men's health in the centre of all this.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking she should apologise and remove her tweet?

Murders happen every day, and yet this one is causing people to want to hold vigils, to have great debate, to start a new #trend. Why? For all of the reasons above. Very well said.

You honestly think that if a young black woman in London was abducted and murdered by a policeman we'd all just shrug and go about our business?

It's the fact that she was probably coerced into getting into the car by a policeman that's the most shocking part of all this. I think there would have been a lot more visible anger towards the police in general - apparently he'd already been reported for harassment towards women and nothing happened - and demands for justice if the victim hadn't been white.

@Bumpitybumper

I disagree with what she has written, but have voted YABU because you want her to apologise and remove her tweet. We can't live in an echo chamber where alternative opinions are repressed and censored.

This exactly. If you’d said AIBU to think this tweet is appalling/risible/shamefully misguided/whatever, I’d have voted YANBU. It is all those things, and it sounds like a bad case of internalised misogyny to come up with a POV like that.

But this culture of demanding people apologise and remove their tweets is also deeply toxic, we need to be able to talk about these things without trying to silence people for having the “wrong” opinion.

Women/feminists in particular are being silenced at a chilling rate these days, and it’s having a catastrophic effect on women’s rights and society in general; so while Davina is clearly no feminist, and I profoundly disagree with her sentiments, this Maoist, authoritarian culture of forced apologies for “wrongthink” is really not the way forward.

@enigma16

What would make things safer for women?

For everyone to openly acknowledge that male violence, harassment and bullying of women is not 'extremely rare' but commonplace. For no-one to excuse any such behaviour or deny the existence of such culture but call it out. Then set about educating boys and men on how not to behave in ways that are sexist and misogynist but respect women as see them as their equals.

Cancel culture and perception of 'wrong think' doesn't actually achieve this though.

This remains an ideology rather than a strategy which is based on research and looking for unintended side effects.

Always beware of the unintended side effects in policy making.

These usually undermine the strategic goals that are intended.

@RedToothBrush

Both the right and the left are polarising and that destroys debate at the centre we is the only thing that really allows us to make progress in a meaningful way. Consensus in society.

This issue is not one in isolation. We have to provide the argument about why and how it benefits society as a whole to improve the safety of women.

This is very true.

It's an obvious point but addressing the problem we have with male violence makes public space safer for everyone.

That's a very, very old argument.

It's pretty much mainstream now.

Not totally mainstream (people still will reply to arguments about violence against women and girls with statements about violence against boys and men), so we still have work to do there.

And in acknowledgement of the fact that we still have work to do, I'll re-state an argument that many people on this thread are very familiar with.

If we begin to look seriously at the problems society has with male violence - change the lens through which we examine problems - we are likely to improve the experience of being alive for many of us: ourselves, our sisters, our mothers, our daughters, our sons, our friends - and the many people we don't know.

You honestly think that if a young black woman in London was abducted and murdered by a policeman we'd all just shrug and go about our business?

I can't imagine for a moment that this wouldn't get the same coverage.

It seems very 'liberal' and even wish-washy to believe in the possibility of persuasion and arguing outwards from commonality and benefit-to-most - but I think it beats dividing people into 'good/bad' hands down.

She may not have that skewed a view when it comes to men and women, it’s just that women who share her views might not want to express it for fear of being excluded from the white middle class feminist ‘room’.

For serious policy you have to provide solid foundations on which to build on.

You cannot run before you can walk if you want long term tangible change.

For all those citing cancel culture, the right to a different opinion, yes, I agree with your views but my point is right now, Davina needs to pipe down, apologise and delete. It's about the timing, her phrasing, the attention it has caused, the upset it is causing. Sometimes, when people cause damage, they can just apologise.

Sadly, for her, she will no doubt suffer a great deal of stress over the response to her tweet. Twitter, more than mumsnet, is full of vile trolls.

I cannot imagine how or why people are hijaking a family’s unimaginable grief to defend men.

Of course there are good men. Not the point. I find it so so distasteful.

I disagree with her and wish she would look at her internalised misogyny. She used to talk about how her (now ex-husband) would just change the channel when she was watching something and she really liked that because ‘he was being a real man’. I tapped out of Davina since reading that interview.
She’s the epitome of internalised misogyny no doubt because of the problematic parents she had.

@kittycorner why is it tasteful? It’s about that man, not ALL men. The vast majority of men are not violent towards women. I mean we live with them ffs, and we bring them up. I am one of the people who do not understand why THIS crime has suddenly been an opportunity to raise the issue of male violence towards women. Nothing has substantially changed in the last week

I have been busy this week so have not really engaged with this story. I am a little surprised at the outrage and reaction though. Women have been subjected to harassment and sexual attack when out alone since time began. Why is this set of circumstances any different? Most of us are aware of the risks of being out alone whether we are male or female.
Is it because the victim was a well educated middle class young woman? I really don’t understand the reaction.
I am of the same generation as Davina, perhaps life experience, growing during the “Yorkshire Ripper” years in West Yorkshire ensured that I was and still am always vigilant about being out and about on my own at night. I agree with her statement.
There will always be men or women born into society that will pose a threat to others. Killers are not a new phenomenon or the result of modern society. In fact, the emergence of digital technology has made it so much safer for women. My parents would have been nervous wrecks had they had access to some of the technology available today.
Perhaps this is the crux of the problem, we have become far too complacent with the technology available and have forgotten the basic rules.

@FamilyOfAliens

I thought she went to Cambridge?

Her Wikipedia page doesn’t say anything beyond A levels under Education.

Oops sorry, I got her confused with Claudia Winkleman :)

I agree with her it's bloody ridiculous scaremongering.
Streets aren't safe whether you are a man or a woman.
How may men are killed by men?

Davina is exactly who I pictured when I read the bit in Gone Girl about "Cool Girls". She is a cool girl and obeys those rules.

A 6 pm curfew for men is ridiculous? But women have even been warned by the police at times about going out after dark.

Sarah was just the kind of "innocent" who had done nothing wrong who can be a figurehead even the most most reactionary can rally around. From the map she had even got past the most "dodgy" part of her walk home.
And then it seeming to be a policeman and maybe a woman involved?

It is always one case which starts the debate that gets things changed. Maybe this will start a new conversation that will get things changed - after all the prosecution of Rapists has got so low that it is effectively decriminalised.

Davina needs to pipe down

Women telling other women to "pipe down" because they have a different opinion.

Crikey.

Davina needs to pipe down, apologise and delete. It's about the timing, her phrasing, the attention it has caused, the upset it is causing. Sometimes, when people cause damage, they can just apologise

She's voicing an opinion. I don't agree with her opinion. But she doesn't need to apologise for it. Much better to discuss and debate reasonably about it.

[quote Fatas]@kittycorner why is it tasteful? It’s about that man, not ALL men. The vast majority of men are not violent towards women. I mean we live with them ffs, and we bring them up. I am one of the people who do not understand why THIS crime has suddenly been an opportunity to raise the issue of male violence towards women. Nothing has substantially changed in the last week[/quote]
Maybe women who have been victims are just so tired of it now?

I wonder if similar was said of suffragettes.

For all those citing cancel culture, the right to a different opinion, yes, I agree with your views but my point is right now, Davina needs to pipe down, apologise and delete. It's about the timing, her phrasing, the attention it has caused, the upset it is causing.

Do you really not see the blatant contradiction in what you’re saying here?

Davina is, IMO, misinformed and ignorant, and yes, contributing to the misogynist culture we live in, but she’s an autonomous human being, and decisions about what she does are hers, not yours, to make.

Say why you think she’s wrong by all means. But telling her what she “needs” to do? No. Absolutely no.

In terms of Davina and her opinion though, she absolutely has every right to say it and even though I think she's wrong I'll also defend her right to express it.

Perhaps this is the crux of the problem, we have become far too complacent with the technology available and have forgotten the basic rules.

What basic rules are you referring to?

she was badly timed i think

I am the mother of a son. He recently blocked a girl on snapchat who was from another part of the country. She had “friended” a number of boys (15-16yr olds) at his school and had been sending provocative selfies and nudes to them, without them requesting them. DS had blocked her and when she questioned his blocking he told her he didn’t mind chatting to her but told her not to degrade herself by sending nudes.
He had some low grade online bullying aimed at him as a younger teenager and was open about it with us. He learned how damaging social media can be.
I hope that I have instilled in him how important it is to take responsibility for the safety of his female friends. I know that this is not a popular feminist view. But I would like to think he puts his friends safety first, whether they are male or female. I would hate it if he was discouraged to walk someone home because it was against that person’s feminist ideals.

Perhaps this is the crux of the problem, we have become far too complacent with the technology available and have forgotten the basic rules

What are the basic rules? As voicing an opinion that others disagree with is certainly not breaking any basic rules.