The problem with "#NotAllMen"

[TheABC]

I read this on the BBC and it beautifully sums up the doublethink problem women face in society.

*"...some people are keen to point out that it's a tiny minority of men who are attackers - using the hashtag #NotAllMen.

"The issue with the argument is that women can't win," says Daisy.

"They want women to not treat all men as potential attackers, but then we also are asked to keep ourselves safe.

"Keeping ourselves safe means that we have to see everyone as potential attackers because if we were to say, 'OK, not all men, we will treat everyone as innocent until proven guilty", that's when these things happen.

"And that's when people say, she should have been more careful.

"So it's really tough, because I think it's an attitude that's really built into society."*

Is she (and I) being unreasonable?

@Flowers24

Saying I dont answer anything directed at me anyway, im baffled by Mumsnet, thought us mums were meant to be caring , considerate of others?

So what do you think we can do to combat the problem of male violence?

Will you answer this?

@Flowers24

Saying I dont answer anything directed at me anyway, im baffled by Mumsnet, thought us mums were meant to be caring , considerate of others?

#Not all Mums are like that.

I will answer but why are you asking me and singling me out?

The really tragic thing is when a woman who knows that a man (father, brother, partner, son, friend) is not like that, is a good man, answers the door to a pair of policemen who have come to arrest that man (father, brother, husband, son, friend) for being precisely like that: on a charge of molestation or assault or child porn or rape or murder. She can't believe it, because she knows he is a Good Man and he can't be guilty -- even when the CCTV film shows it and thirty witnesses stand up to say on oath that he is, and he is sent to prison, she still doesn't believe it.

It is really quite rare for any wife or mother to say, when a rapist is caught, "I always knew there was something funny about our Peter; I never really trusted him."

@Flowers24

I will answer but why are you asking me and singling me out?

I’m responding to your points! You brought up your husband and son, not me. You say they won’t do anything about male violence, why won’t they? When it would help keep them safe?

@Flowers24

Again, apologies. On a fast moving thread when a direct response will help how I frame my next comments, it just helps me not to jump the gun.

I think a lot of the NAMALTers, are perhaps saying, men shouldn't have to, if they don't want to. They don't have to. But while they might not be instigators of the more egregious acts and forms of misogyny, it means that they're not being part of the solution, to combat the status quo and systemic undermining of women.

thought us mums were meant to be caring , considerate of others

I think your last comment shows your internalised misogyny, Flowers24. Endless allowances are made for men's sexist behaviour whereas women are always expected to be nice, 'caring' and 'considerate of others'.

I never said they won't do anything about it? I said I felt they didn't need to stand up as they already know violence is wrong !

@enigma16

thought us mums were meant to be caring , considerate of others

I think your last comment shows your internalised misogyny, Flowers24. Endless allowances are made for men's sexist behaviour whereas women are always expected to be nice, 'caring' and 'considerate of others'.

This is sooooo wrong!!

Everyone should be caring and considerate of others, only said mum's as it's called Mumsnet ! Call it parents net!!

@Flowers24

My husband or my son should not 'step up' again, not all.men.

Here’s your exact quote. You didn’t respond when asked ‘not all men what?’

And fighting for women's rights IS caring for others, including you.

Not all men are violent.

@Flowers24

Not all men are violent.

But the point you raised was that they shouldn’t step up, not that they shouldn’t be violent. So why shouldn’t they step up?

Not all men are violent.

No, but too many are, and most are sexist. Sexism hurts us too.

Endless allowances are made for men's sexist behaviour whereas women are always expected to be nice, 'caring' and 'considerate of others'.
This, through and through.

Once again, who on this thread has said that all men are violent? No one!! Why do you keep feeling the need to tell us that?

No one, despite what 2021 constantly declares, believes or has asserted that all men are violent. DH would be very surprised to hear me say that. My best mate, who is male, would be very surprised to hear me say that.

For one thing, I'm not that stupid. I know not all men are violent. All men does not equal too many men are violent, which I will assert, when 97% of women have been abused, assaulted or harassed.

Also, we are not just talking about rape and murder. We're talking about domestic violence, including non physical - emotional, sexual, financial. We're talking about women being groped, cat-called, harassed, cyber bullied.

We're talking about the women who are talked over and down at work, the way 'women's work' is undervalued and devalued, the way some women still do way more of the parenting, housework, and 'wifework' even if they earn more or do more hours.

It's the same old line that gets used because they (generic for posters with a particular agenda) must think that the more we have to repeatedly deal with the same bloody thing, the less time is spent examining systemic issues and shedding light on problematic elements of male (as a class) behaviour and attitudes.

Then after doing the same thing for pages, they (again generic) will say something to the effect of but you aren't even giving solutions... all you're doing is saying you hate men... maybe if you spent less time going round in circles online you'd get somewhere, do you not think that the reason you're struggling to get men on board is because of YOUR behaviour and your poor attitude to men.

Aka the reason societal level misogyny and normalised violence hasn't been solved is because women in an online forum haven't sufficiently thought about men's feelings.

@LolaSmiles

It's the same old line that gets used because they (generic for posters with a particular agenda) must think that the more we have to repeatedly deal with the same bloody thing, the less time is spent examining systemic issues and shedding light on problematic elements of male (as a class) behaviour and attitudes.

Then after doing the same thing for pages, they (again generic) will say something to the effect of but you aren't even giving solutions... all you're doing is saying you hate men... maybe if you spent less time going round in circles online you'd get somewhere, do you not think that the reason you're struggling to get men on board is because of YOUR behaviour and your poor attitude to men.

Aka the reason societal level misogyny and normalised violence hasn't been solved is because women in an online forum haven't sufficiently thought about men's feelings.

That’s the line I always find so interesting ‘the good men WOULD step up but they won’t because they’re sulking because a group of women said they’re not doing enough’. A strange mark of a Good Man but they never see the irony.

the more we have to repeatedly deal with the same bloody thing, the less time is spent examining systemic issues and shedding light on problematic elements of male (as a class) behaviour and attitudes.

This and everything else you said in your last post.

AKA, you made them do this, if you hadn't made them angry. . .