The problem with "#NotAllMen"

[TheABC]

I read this on the BBC and it beautifully sums up the doublethink problem women face in society.

*"...some people are keen to point out that it's a tiny minority of men who are attackers - using the hashtag #NotAllMen.

"The issue with the argument is that women can't win," says Daisy.

"They want women to not treat all men as potential attackers, but then we also are asked to keep ourselves safe.

"Keeping ourselves safe means that we have to see everyone as potential attackers because if we were to say, 'OK, not all men, we will treat everyone as innocent until proven guilty", that's when these things happen.

"And that's when people say, she should have been more careful.

"So it's really tough, because I think it's an attitude that's really built into society."*

Is she (and I) being unreasonable?

@2021ismyyear

Flowers... these people are trying to make you stumble on your words so they can say “hah I was right” do not give them that opportunity. That’s why they keep asking you dumb questions.

A question to the men haters: In my circle of friends most people think like me. I have several police officer friends too. Do you think it’s ok that some of the female protesters at the weekend told a female police officer that it “should have been you not Sarah”. Disgusting behaviour.

All I hear is “we are not man bashing but (insert man bashing statement)”

Have you got a link for that source?

@Flowers24

Not dishing anything out but stating what i think, as this is a discussion, one posted is repeatedly asking me over and over, trying to intimidate and I will not tolerate that.

Ok, and what do you think? What can we do about the insidious problem of male violence in our society?

I am not trying to make you stumble over your words or intimidate you, but to make you see sense.

There is still a huge misogyny problem today, and it is important firstly to acknowledge that and then to do something about it. For some men or women to say 'I'm nice, nothing to do with me' perpetuates that culture and allows it to flourish. Lots of men are able to be sexist because they are seen as 'nice guys', so no-one challenges them.

Not every man assaults or murders women (although many do), but loads are guilty of everyday sexism that denigrates, shames, silences and intimidates women. Including so called 'nice guys', and those who choose not to challenge sexist behaviours.

In answer to the question about the police versus protesters, nobody should speak like that to anybody else.

I believe the source of the incident mentioned can be found on FWR after it went viral on Facebook.

Asking for clarification isn’t victimising. It’s something that you might have expected to happen on an AIBU thread.

Asking for clarification isn’t victimising.
Exactly.
It's interesting that posters asking for clarification is considered victimisation and yet the endless 'but what about men? But why are you blaming innocent men?' lines of questioning that continue from several posters over recent threads is conveniently accepted.

@MistressoftheDarkSide

In good faith, we were just trying to clarify something and nip a potentially erroneous subject in the bud. I do feel it was a genuine engagement.

I don't, so we will have to agree to disagree

"“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Oh, and labelling people men haters, deliberately mis-stating what they have said, it's beautiful. I mean, it's classic stuff, innit? Beautifully rendered. You don't see such craftsmanship so often these days. Outside of Parliament and covid updates, that is. . .

@mbosnz

Oh, and labelling people men haters, deliberately mis-stating what they have said, it's beautiful. I mean, it's classic stuff, innit? Beautifully rendered. You don't see such craftsmanship so often these days. Outside of Parliament and covid updates, that is. . .

Exactly, it’s deliberately provocative and then they complain when people are provoked.

I definitely give the whataboutery a solid 10/10.

And I'm way too over invested in poor old Steve. Will NOBODY think about poor Steve?!

That's the textbook strategy on these threads isn't it:
Option A: sealioning
Option B: repeat the same claims/questions over and over again, and even when people repeatedly challenge/answer, continue to argue that their replies prove your first point
Option C: try to derail with whataboutery and then when people point out that's not the focus of the issue, use this as proof that people are mean/nasty/man hating

When all else fails and people identify the same strategies, say it's mean/sneaky/victiminising/harassment.

Is this all directed at me?

@mbosnz

I definitely give the whataboutery a solid 10/10.

And I'm way too over invested in poor old Steve. Will NOBODY think about poor Steve?!

Just wants to hang about outside primary schools and underpasses and not ever cross a road POOR FUCKER. He’s the absolute textbook definition of ‘discrimination’.

@Flowers24

Is this all directed at me?

All what?

Do you know how poor Steve is doing?

Those who have accused us of men bashing/hating. Please explain how recognising that men commit the violence in greater numbers towards women and then asking all men to do their part in supporting the end to the abuse women face is bashing of hating men?

@Flowers24

Is this all directed at me?

Does it matter? You don’t answer anything directed at you anyway.

@Flowers24 I'm fine with that.

Which is a shame because it may have allowed us to discuss specific subjects pertinent to identifying how we can identify the root cause of the issue at hand.

Again, more attacks !

Happy to discuss Dark side but you repeatedly asking me is not helpful and makes one feel quite uncomfortable !

Is this all directed at me?
No.
It's outlining the same old strategies that seem to come up on these threads.

Just yesterday one poster outlined the circular nature of some arguments, and another very 'what about the men' poster also decided that it was all about them too.
There's a real knack of some 'what about the men' posters to think that women discussing trends on threads is all about them, but then again they also seem to think that women discussing male violence and women's oppression is a personal attack on each individual man.🤷‍♀️

@Flowers24

Again, more attacks !

Where?

Definitely not attacking you there, flowers, just havin' a bit of a larf, like, with the girls. Just a bit of bants. . .

apologies if I've upset you.

Saying I dont answer anything directed at me anyway, im baffled by Mumsnet, thought us mums were meant to be caring , considerate of others?

@mbosnz

Definitely not attacking you there, flowers, just havin' a bit of a larf, like, with the girls. Just a bit of bants. . .

apologies if I've upset you.

No problem :)