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Original poster

The problem with "#NotAllMen"

999 replies

TheABC · 12/03/2021 21:18

I read this on the BBC and it beautifully sums up the doublethink problem women face in society.

*"...some people are keen to point out that it's a tiny minority of men who are attackers - using the hashtag #NotAllMen.

"The issue with the argument is that women can't win," says Daisy.

"They want women to not treat all men as potential attackers, but then we also are asked to keep ourselves safe.

"Keeping ourselves safe means that we have to see everyone as potential attackers because if we were to say, 'OK, not all men, we will treat everyone as innocent until proven guilty", that's when these things happen.

"And that's when people say, she should have been more careful.

"So it's really tough, because I think it's an attitude that's really built into society."*

Is she (and I) being unreasonable?

OP posts:
enigma16 · 15/03/2021 14:30

This is not only about men who are violent towards women. What do you think about Chris Moyles running a countdown to Charlotte Church turning 16 and offering to have sex with her? Is that OK in your opinion?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/03/2021 14:30

@Flowers24

Not all men and I stand by it. Give me all the stats you want but women violence to men is rarely reported .
Or happens far less often.

Rape/sexual asssault of either sex, those statistics are much the same. Do they not happen much or are they not reported?

There is always a question over such staitics. Happily common sense usually kicks in, usually

Flowers24 · 15/03/2021 14:31

It's a joke i guess?.so none of us can joke about anything these days , sigh

CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/03/2021 14:31

I do not give a shit how many of each gender are murdered Ignoring the essence of that horror

You mean sex.

We can't even define gender, let alone gather statistics on it!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/03/2021 14:32

@Flowers24

It's a joke i guess?.so none of us can joke about anything these days , sigh
What was a joke?
Pumperthepumper · 15/03/2021 14:32

@Flowers24

It's a joke i guess?.so none of us can joke about anything these days , sigh
#MeToo? What about that?
Flowers24 · 15/03/2021 14:32

My husband or my son should not 'step up' again, not all.men.

enigma16 · 15/03/2021 14:33

If you think that's an appropriate joke do you also think racist jokes are OK? Can you not see that jokes that are at the expense of someone else's humanity and dignity are not OK?

2021ismyyear · 15/03/2021 14:33

I don’t care about the sex of victims. Every murder is horrendous. Don’t twist my words.

Are you the type that wound say “I’m so sorry your son was murdered but it’s very rare and really most victims are women so get over it”

Pumperthepumper · 15/03/2021 14:33

@Flowers24

My husband or my son should not 'step up' again, not all.men.
Again, not all men what?

Why don’t your husband and son want to stop people being murdered? You’d think they would, what with both of them being at a higher risk of being violently attacked by men.

Pumperthepumper · 15/03/2021 14:34

@2021ismyyear

I don’t care about the sex of victims. Every murder is horrendous. Don’t twist my words.

Are you the type that wound say “I’m so sorry your son was murdered but it’s very rare and really most victims are women so get over it”

Who’s doing the murdering? Do you care about the sex of the culprits?
CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/03/2021 14:37

@2021ismyyear

I don’t care about the sex of victims. Every murder is horrendous. Don’t twist my words.

Are you the type that wound say “I’m so sorry your son was murdered but it’s very rare and really most victims are women so get over it”

But what about the sex of the murderers?
LastRoloIsMine · 15/03/2021 14:38

I don’t care about the sex of victims. Every murder is horrendous. Don’t twist my words.

No twisting required you said it. It right there.

Are you the type that wound say “I’m so sorry your son was murdered but it’s very rare and really most victims are women so get over it”

Most people are not as vulgar as you so no. Plus we know more males are murdered each year so not rare. We also know that those doing the murdering of males are....other males!

MistressoftheDarkSide · 15/03/2021 14:39

@Flowers24

If you are referring to the countdown on Charlotte Church turning 16 and becoming legal for sex, publicly reported, as being a joke, may I remind you that Charlotte Church, still a child in the eyes of the law, in the public eye for her actual talent, was reduced to an object with the primary intent of potentially gratifying a man sexually as soon as there were no legal consequences?

Ya see, this actually illustrates really well the rot in society.

It is distasteful. I bet she didn't think "Oh goodie, an older man of subjective attractiveness wants to have sex with me, is discussing it with the general populous - how flattering" or even "Ah bless, what a japester, bless"

LolaSmiles · 15/03/2021 14:40

This thread feels very familiar.

How many times in the next 5 pages do we think we'll see:
You don't care about men
Innocent men
Hating men / you say men are evil
But what about men
But men are murdered too
Why are you saying all men are...
NAMALT
Here's an anecdote about my Nigel and why my Nigel is such a good guy that he can't cope with women talking about systemic issues surrounding sexism and male violence
Why don't you care about men?
But men can be victims of crimes? Why aren't you talking about that?
You aren't offering solutions!
Why don't you go into places known for being male dominated and hotbeds of misogyny and tell men off?
But women are violent too

enigma16 · 15/03/2021 14:42

I also remember all too well the fear and disgust when grown men perved over me as a teen. It's one of the most odious forms of sexism. How can you excuse it?

MistressoftheDarkSide · 15/03/2021 14:43

@LolaSmiles

Very much Womanhog Day isn't it........

CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/03/2021 14:43

@MistressoftheDarkSide THAT ‽‽‽‽

Flowers can't have meant that, surely.

LastRoloIsMine · 15/03/2021 14:45

Lola I imagine many many times given the previous threads. However I am done with walking away. I am in this for the longhaul.
I am not interested in changing certain posters minds but I am interested in the fact others maybe reading and the patient reasonable message 88% agree with will be heard.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 15/03/2021 14:47

@CuriousaboutSamphire

To be fair I'm not entirely sure, but if it was, I still feel it bears repeating.

Happy to be corrected and apologise to @Flowers24 if I am wrong - while trying to maintain a measured response I may have misinterpreted or missed the true source of her comment.

enigma16 · 15/03/2021 14:50

No, I think you're right, it was in response to me asking what the 'not all men' brigade think of other forms of everyday sexism, such as the Charlotte Church 'joke'.

mbosnz · 15/03/2021 14:51

I was really heartened yesterday at the men who came onto Mumsnet, to engage, and listen to what too many women have to say about how they have been treated by too many men. (Too many does not equal all, for anyone that numerically or reasoning challenged). How they asked what they could do to be effective allies. To offer their challenge to, and rejection of #NAMALT.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/03/2021 14:51

In this case I do hope you have made a mistake!

My thought was Flowers was taking ownership of 2021ismyyear's hasty comment!

MistressoftheDarkSide · 15/03/2021 14:52

@enigma16

That was my take on it, perhaps @Flowers24 could just clear that up for us?

supercee · 15/03/2021 14:56

@Mittens030869

Sigh. No one is saying that all men are violent or evil. No one. We have asked for decent men to call out misogyny when they see it. (In the same way that those of us who are white should call out racism when we see it.)

Why why why are the Not All Men brigade choosing to ignore this? I just don't get it.