The problem with "#NotAllMen"

[TheABC]

I read this on the BBC and it beautifully sums up the doublethink problem women face in society.

*"...some people are keen to point out that it's a tiny minority of men who are attackers - using the hashtag #NotAllMen.

"The issue with the argument is that women can't win," says Daisy.

"They want women to not treat all men as potential attackers, but then we also are asked to keep ourselves safe.

"Keeping ourselves safe means that we have to see everyone as potential attackers because if we were to say, 'OK, not all men, we will treat everyone as innocent until proven guilty", that's when these things happen.

"And that's when people say, she should have been more careful.

"So it's really tough, because I think it's an attitude that's really built into society."*

Is she (and I) being unreasonable?

I pity those with sons I really do.
Please don't. We don't need your pity.

@LolaSmiles

I pity those with sons I really do. Please don't. We don't need your pity.

My boys are awesome, i agree with lola

Ah but I was told that my son might turn out to be evil? I feel sad for us with sons too.

Just answer me one more question... if it’s men that are the issue, why don’t you direct your shit towards them?! I mean I heard they are all on porn hub or something... shouldn’t you be having a word with them? Not posting on mumsnet, which is primarily a site used by ummmm well... mums. Awkward.

Awkward? For whom?

It's essential for women coping with fuckwit men - have you seen the 'Prank' thread? Are you going to po over there and tell posters not to call OPs OH a twat for his actions?

Why don't you go to Porn Hub and see just how many men are there, posting away merrily, about what they'd do to women, if only women would let them? SEE what it is you have been defending!

Ah but I was told that my son might turn out to be evil? Again THAT IS A LIE and the thread is still there, for all to see what you really were told.

Or is that me being silly again?

if it’s men that are the issue, why don’t you direct your shit towards them?! I mean I heard they are all on porn hub or something... shouldn’t you be having a word with them? Not posting on mumsnet, which is primarily a site used by ummmm well... mums. Awkward.

So discussing male violence towards females is not allowed on mn? Are we restricted to just talking about babies and cleaning?

Pornhub is regularly discussed along with various means of reducing children's exposure/the forced participation of porn actors and the violent sex culture sites like pornhub have encouraged.

You are a disappointment 2021

My boys are awesome, i agree with lola
Same here. Mums of boys don't need pity.

Just answer me one more question... if it’s men that are the issue, why don’t you direct your shit towards them?! I mean I heard they are all on porn hub or something... shouldn’t you be having a word with them? Not posting on mumsnet, which is primarily a site used by ummmm well... mums. Awkward.
The only thing that's awkward here are posters telling women who want to discuss male pattern violence and systemic sexism how they should do it.

@bourbonne

"Men can't win either."

What is actually the problem for men?

As an adult, I accept that there are barriers between me and children I don't know. I'm not offended by that, even though I know I'm not a risk to children. If I go up to a strange child in the park and offer them a sweet and they run back to their mum, they have absolutely done the right thing. (Just to be clear, I don't actually do that!)

Because children don't know which adults are dangerous. And women don't know which men are dangerous.

I have never known a decent man be offended by that. What a lily-livered whiner they'd have to be!

This.

It's sad though that you need to find such equivalencies to get some people (men and women) to understand.

If we go stomping onto "male" sites and try to talk to them, won't we hurt their feelings? And then be accused of of trying to provoke them just to get a reaction that proves our erroneous confirmation bias that AMALT? And if we ask them not to be misogynistic in our replies, won't we be accused of restricting their right to free speech and right to an opinion, not to mention not having a sense of humour and misunderstanding their motivations? And if we speak out of turn, will we be accused of being aggressive and not rational enough to engage with?

Just wondering.......

So you saw some horrid comments on porn hub and you did what exactly? You came to mumsnet to have a pop at my husband? Did you report the comments? Did you call out the author of said comments?

I just don’t think hashtags and people coming onto mumsnet to moan about decent men is the answer. It really isn’t going to change things. You want action... bloody do some action... show me what you’ve done to change things for the better?

It was hypothetical.

Why would I come on here to have a pop at your husband if I saw a nasty comment on Pornhub? Is he on Pornhub? How would I know it's your husband?

Am I not allowed to talk to women on Mumsnet about things that concern me?

2021
Why is it the role of women to monitor men's misogyny on porn sites?

Why should women have to go through sites full of misogyny and challenge men in order to talk about women's oppression and male pattern violence between themselves?

Why do you seem to have an endless list of criteria in your head that dictate when it's acceptable for women to talk about women's oppression at the hands of men?

How can I prove, here what, if anything I've done to change things for the better?

I can't prove that my adult son seems like an essentially kind, thoughtful and respectful towards women can I? But I think how I've brought him up is definitely helping in the general "not being part of the problem" Potential movement that these discussions have identified is at least something.

Woah! What the fuck was that?

Pretzel logic or what? Cart - horse - horse - cart!

Did anyone else see the film Loopers (other similar films apply)?

2021 nobody had a pop at your husband until you decided we were not giving him enough praise for being a good man and writing a dissertation on women in films. Do you realise how pathetic you sound?

You then go on to call women witches and decide that mn can only be used to talk about mum related topics only.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Woah! What the fuck was that?

Pretzel logic or what? Cart - horse - horse - cart!

Did anyone else see the film Loopers (other similar films apply)?

@2021ismyyear keeps coming up with these weird AHA GOTCHA dumps and then never, ever referring to them again when they’re made to look ridiculous.

See also: the stepdad being a victim of discrimination for not feeling able to wander past a school at his leisure.

Or OMG MUSLIMS! My DH’s dissertation!

So dull.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Yup. I feel a bit bad that I couldn't resist replying. But I really find it all very interesting.

Pump dont forget over the road Steve.

It’s defensive, that’s all.

There’s no argument in asking men to end male violence. There’s no downside. There’s no group of society who loses. It’s inarguable.

I will never forget Steve. But whaddabout STEVE?!

@LastRoloIsMine

Pump dont forget over the road Steve.

Oh god, I did forget Steve! Poor old Steve, just living his life across the road unable to hang out at primary schools or women’s toilets because of all the discrimination.

Hmmm yet when I did refer to a “real” man (not a hypothetical example) that got mugged and ended up dead you didn’t want to know.

I was just reading another thread and was unsettled.

What is it we are being distracted from?

Why all of this noise? We know it has happened before, so is this another concerted effort by someone?

What may we be missing?

There is at least one transwoman who has been very belittling, 3 maybe 4 NAMALTs, some who are also TWAW, and a couple that I think may have been socks as they seemed to tag team me and another poster over the weekend, nothing reportable, just an oddity.

So, assuming that at least half of those are just coincidence, there has definitely been an increase in combative posters over the last week, many using terms we all know are unwelcome here, saying they will carry on doing so because something or other!

What is underpinning it? We usually manage to track such things back to Twitter et. Or is it simply the fact that it is a time for Women?

@2021ismyyear

Hmmm yet when I did refer to a “real” man (not a hypothetical example) that got mugged and ended up dead you didn’t want to know.

Actually some of us replied to that directly!