The problem with "#NotAllMen"

[TheABC]

I read this on the BBC and it beautifully sums up the doublethink problem women face in society.

*"...some people are keen to point out that it's a tiny minority of men who are attackers - using the hashtag #NotAllMen.

"The issue with the argument is that women can't win," says Daisy.

"They want women to not treat all men as potential attackers, but then we also are asked to keep ourselves safe.

"Keeping ourselves safe means that we have to see everyone as potential attackers because if we were to say, 'OK, not all men, we will treat everyone as innocent until proven guilty", that's when these things happen.

"And that's when people say, she should have been more careful.

"So it's really tough, because I think it's an attitude that's really built into society."*

Is she (and I) being unreasonable?

@2021ismyyear

Do you also hold ALL Women accountable because there have been a few cases where people made up rapes?! Of course not.

So stop doing it to men. As detailed in the previous thread there are other good ways to help prevent any violent crime.

Demonising men ain’t one of them

Again, not a fair comparison as false accusations are vanishingly rare, but let’s pretend for a second and follow it through to its logical conclusion - here are some things I do to hold women accountable:

I don’t laugh at jokes about false accusations

I don’t encourage my friends to make false accusations

I would be horrified if one of my friends made a false accusation and wouldn’t look for ways that the other person deserved it

I would support stronger sentences for people who make false accusations

And so on, and so on.

Men aren't allowed to lead campaigns like this. Could someone let Lord Winston know? His contribution is really not appreciated!

FFS! How many of us sent emails, notes of thanks all the men in the HoL last week? Twitter and Marcus Rashford, and others (well maybe not him, hey 21 )

It’s all subjective really. I think it’s a sad day when men have to cross over the road through fear of being a rapist. I don’t want that to happen. The problem isn’t “all men” The problem is rapists!

Being told “most men are not lovely” and taking the piss out of men that are actually decent hardly supports your “but we aren’t demonising all men” argument.

@weebarra

DH did point out that males are more at risk of violence. He is right. He's really genuinely offended by women's fear. This is a man who I've been with for over 20 years, who supposed me after rape, through breast cancer and three pregnancies. I wonder if it's so beyond his ken, he thinks other men are all like him.

Yes he is right. But there is a MASSIVE difference about being mugged for your mobile phone (nasty but you'll get over it) and being raped.

Any man who can't grasp that is an idiot. My DH said that there were times when he was at university when he was nervous about walking around in the darker corners of the city on his own, but it's still not the same.

Oh god! And here we are back at square one.

What is subjective? Stats? Nope! ALL of them show that men are by far the more violent in our society.

And we are women discussing the ways they are a danger to us!

Everything else stemmed from your frankly odd posting about your stepdad and husband and some bloke called Steve!

@2021ismyyear
@Crystalclair

The stance that you are both adopting is very bizarre.

Nobody is saying that they hate all men.
Nobody is attempting to demonise all men.

By stating "all people" in opposition to "all men", doesn't hold up when we know that the men who commit crimes against women (verbal, emotional & physical abuse), do not listen to women telling them to stop.

They are more likely to listen to other men who are NOT intent on hurting women.

Why is this so hard for you to comprehend??

And of course, where men are victims of violence, it is almost always at the hands of other men. And most "terrorist" acts are perpetrated by men too.

Toxic male violence is the problem.

“Yes he is right. But there is a MASSIVE difference about being mugged for your mobile phone (nasty but you'll get over it) and being raped”

Wow!!!!! Are you for real?!

Wow!!!!! Are you for real?! Having been mugged for my bag (a few times) and been raped, YES!!

What the hell else is there to say about that?

I think it’s a sad day when men have to cross over the road through fear of being a rapist. I don’t want that to happen

The fear isn't there's it is the womans who they are walking behind.
Crossing the road has zero impact on the man. A good man would do it because he knows that it will make a difference to the woman.
A good man would understand her fear is more important than his ego.

Dean Mayley, was stabbed during a knife-point mugging in Greenford, west London, in February after refusing to hand over his mobile phone - an attack caught on CCTV.
His mother, who wept outside court, said the loss of her "lovely, lovely" boy was "unbearable".

Is this “nasty but you’ll get over it” too?!

We are asking, requesting and pleading for men all men to support women and girls and change misogynistic male culture. Whats wrong with that?
It hurts the egos and sensitivities of some men who think they're knights in shining armour and need a gold star for not being a sex offender or violent to women, and they don't wish to consider that their smaller scale actions perpetuate a culture of toxic masculinity where sexism is normalised.

I couldn't imagine being so arrogant to say "but I've not violently attacked someone for racist reasons, so can you not mention institutional racism as it hurts my feelings".

@2021ismyyear

It’s all subjective really. I think it’s a sad day when men have to cross over the road through fear of being a rapist. I don’t want that to happen. The problem isn’t “all men” The problem is rapists!

Being told “most men are not lovely” and taking the piss out of men that are actually decent hardly supports your “but we aren’t demonising all men” argument.

God, I can’t imagine the hardship in having to cross a road. Does he struggle in any other way with this massive discrimination he faces?

2021 that was a murder not a mugging.

@2021ismyyear

Dean Mayley, was stabbed during a knife-point mugging in Greenford, west London, in February after refusing to hand over his mobile phone - an attack caught on CCTV. His mother, who wept outside court, said the loss of her "lovely, lovely" boy was "unbearable".

Is this “nasty but you’ll get over it” too?!

Do you think it was the loss of the mobile phone she was upset about? Seriously?

@pumper yes we've had it pointed out to us about muslims, but it still bullshit because would a teacher in a college for example, say 'right, people won't know that you might be a terrorist, so you need to...'

No, that conversation would NEVER happen, and rightly so. So stop trying to deflect from the point by comparison being made.

stabbed during a knife-point mugging Some women are killed during a rape too. Both are usually referred to as murder.

Do you not see how offensive, and quite ridiculous, this is?

[quote Crystalclair]@pumper yes we've had it pointed out to us about muslims, but it still bullshit because would a teacher in a college for example, say 'right, people won't know that you might be a terrorist, so you need to...'

No, that conversation would NEVER happen, and rightly so. So stop trying to deflect from the point by comparison being made.[/quote]
They absolutely do - young Muslim men are absolutely told what to do to avoid being guilty by association.

I can’t believe this is news to you.

I'm a witch with a credo of "and harm ye none" applicable across the species from human to animal.

Ironic that Namalters are up in arms about lazy, demonising stereotyping but hardly lead by example.