The problem with "#NotAllMen"

[TheABC]

I read this on the BBC and it beautifully sums up the doublethink problem women face in society.

*"...some people are keen to point out that it's a tiny minority of men who are attackers - using the hashtag #NotAllMen.

"The issue with the argument is that women can't win," says Daisy.

"They want women to not treat all men as potential attackers, but then we also are asked to keep ourselves safe.

"Keeping ourselves safe means that we have to see everyone as potential attackers because if we were to say, 'OK, not all men, we will treat everyone as innocent until proven guilty", that's when these things happen.

"And that's when people say, she should have been more careful.

"So it's really tough, because I think it's an attitude that's really built into society."*

Is she (and I) being unreasonable?

“I don’t know why you think this non-existent hatred of men is worse than the literal murders and attacks carried out by actual men though”

So are you saying my charity volunteer husband that wrote a dissertation supporting women at university is worse than say... rose west?!

@2021ismyyear

“by actual men though”. Is that ALL men of some men?

Some men.

All men need to stop it happening.

@2021ismyyear

“I don’t know why you think this non-existent hatred of men is worse than the literal murders and attacks carried out by actual men though”

So are you saying my charity volunteer husband that wrote a dissertation supporting women at university is worse than say... rose west?!

What?

I’m saying people saying ‘all men need to do more’ and the hurt feelings bizarrely associated with that is not in any way comparable to the three women per week killed by men in the UK alone.

But you know that.

@2021ismyyear

Crystalclair You cannot argue with this lot.

I quoted some stats yesterday about male domestic abuse (men being the victim). And got told I was making it up. They don’t want to listen.

No, you were not. And that thread is still entirely visible, anyone can go and see what it was you said and what was said in response.

This you ARE making up!

I believe in equality for all. You cant say well women suffer more so now men should.

Exactly how are men suffering if they are being expected to stand up for women and girls and the abuse, misogyny directed at us by men?

“Some men.

All men need to stop it happening.”

Nooooo ALL PEOPLE. We all have a responsibility. I plan to educate my kids, or are you saying that’s just my husbands job to tell my son about consent?

[quote Crystalclair]@2021, we are the minority I'm afraid. Apparently it's ok to call out all men, but not stereotype muslims, black youths etc. Hypocrites?! You bet.

And as soon as you mention the above, they try to outsmart you by directing you to start your own thread about terrorism, because 'that's not what this is about'

I believe in equality for all. You cant say well women suffer more so now men should.

And yes, we know they say that if a man is decent, he won't mind. But I really dont believe that to be entirely true.

[/quote]
Such a boring arguement, but here we go again:

The Muslim community does loads of work to stop young people being radicalised. Loads - helplines, therapy groups, working with offenders, schools, loads and loads and loads.

Now you tell me one male-led campaign to end male violence against women. Just one.

Highlights included “gold star for your husband” when I mentioned the work he did for women’s rights. So basically when there is a decent man, you lot don’t want to know. ?? You mean the bit where you told us that his dissertation was on strong women in film? Or that you think he and his male freinds sit in pubs discussing their kids and their reading achievements?

@2021ismyyear

“Some men.

All men need to stop it happening.”

Nooooo ALL PEOPLE. We all have a responsibility. I plan to educate my kids, or are you saying that’s just my husbands job to tell my son about consent?

But women are already doing that work. We’ve been doing it for years.

One male-led campaign to end violence against women. Just one. Let’s hear it.

For anyone who wasn't on that other thread, here it is. You can see what really was and was not said!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4189789-The-men-I-know-feel-like-this-too?msgid=105576457

CuriousaboutSamphire

You are creating a very silly argument here.

So a man does something good and you piss all over it? How exactly does that help?

You mean I, like others, inconveniently remember what you really did post on another thread?

OK

I have this feeling that we're in for another day where a few posters insist that the discussion about male violence and the normalisation of women's sea-based oppression in society needs to primarily cater to the feelings of individual men who feel uncomfortableby women speaking out, and then routinely try to shift the discussions about this topic by repeatedly 'but what about men?'

With the added spice of "you witches" just to really hurt !

Ok so I quoted a stat for male domestic violence and was told

“ And again, check your stats. Calls to the National Domestic Abuse helpline jumped by 60% - no mention of the sex of individuals calling: where is your sex disaggregated information coming form?”

I took it from a charity that supports male victims of domestic abuse.. I didn’t pluck the figure from the air.

So a man does something good and you piss all over it? How exactly does that help?

What good did it actually do?
Did he start a campaign to promote women in film? Did he tackle the "casting couch" culture?

You want us to applaud your husband for writing a dissertation on strong women in film in the 80s for what reason exactly?

The Muslim community does loads of work to stop young people being radicalised. Loads - helplines, therapy groups, working with offenders, schools, loads and loads and loads.

Now you tell me one male-led campaign to end male violence against women. Just one.

That's not a fair comparison though. Any campaign by men would be dismissed with a kind of "what the fXXX do they know about the abuse we suffer" attitude. Imagine if a man was made Minister for Women, the government would get trashed.

Men aren't allowed to lead campaigns like this.

@skirk64

The Muslim community does loads of work to stop young people being radicalised. Loads - helplines, therapy groups, working with offenders, schools, loads and loads and loads.

Now you tell me one male-led campaign to end male violence against women. Just one.

That's not a fair comparison though. Any campaign by men would be dismissed with a kind of "what the fXXX do they know about the abuse we suffer" attitude. Imagine if a man was made Minister for Women, the government would get trashed.

Men aren't allowed to lead campaigns like this.

Let’s hear of one who tried then. One failed male-led campaign centring women.

Just one, any one.

@skirk64

The Muslim community does loads of work to stop young people being radicalised. Loads - helplines, therapy groups, working with offenders, schools, loads and loads and loads.

Now you tell me one male-led campaign to end male violence against women. Just one.

That's not a fair comparison though. Any campaign by men would be dismissed with a kind of "what the fXXX do they know about the abuse we suffer" attitude. Imagine if a man was made Minister for Women, the government would get trashed.

Men aren't allowed to lead campaigns like this.

We won't know until they've tried. . .

Do you also hold ALL Women accountable because there have been a few cases where people made up rapes?! Of course not.

So stop doing it to men. As detailed in the previous thread there are other good ways to help prevent any violent crime.

Demonising men ain’t one of them

With the added spice of "you witches" just to really hurt!
Such casual misogyny, but men have it worse don't you know?

Men aren't at fault if they normalise misogyny.
They're not at fault if they take part in small scale sexism.
If they don't assault women then they're the good guys
Women talking about male violence is upsetting to the innocent men/good guys so we should shut up to protect their feelings
Men aren't allowed to advocate for women apparently because women don't allow it

It's a tough life being a man according to many posters on here. The world is apparently full of all these amazing, inclusive men who strive for equality, but then men who do support women are virtue signalling, and they aren't allowed to campaign.

It makes totally sense

Men aren't allowed to lead campaigns like this

I think a campaign to change how the courts deal with the rape and abuse of women led by a man whos target audience is the mostly male judges and law makers would be welcomed.
A campaign that targets males on how not to rape would be welcomed and beat/murder women would be welcomed.

Campaigns led by men telling women how not to get raped or a male womens officer are not the same thing.

Demonising men ain’t one of them

Nobody is demonising men!

We are asking, requesting and pleading for men all men to support women and girls and change misogynistic male culture. Whats wrong with that?

Do please fill out the Government consultation on violence against women and girls.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/violence-against-women-and-girls-vawg-call-for-evidence

It's really important that we get involved and tell them like it is... that there seems to be no appetite within successive Governments to address misogyny and VAWG because the men in charge refuse to face up to the reality of MALE PERPETRATED VIOLENCE.

For men to face up to male violence against women and girls would mean having a hand in smashing the patriarchy. And the patriarchy is hell bent on keeping male power exactly where it is.