The vigil for Sarah Everard should be allowed to go ahead, just as the BLM protests were.

[Damnrightwrong]

I'm frankly appalled that the police are opposing the vigil, it wasn't so long ago that people were flocking to central London in their thousands to protest on behalf of black lives matter.

Black lives do matter, and women's lives do too.

AIBU

@Donotfeedthebears

I’ve never clapped the NHS and don’t think they are wonderful. At all.

The last time the NHS gave me an injection (in fact several repeated injections), they told me they were harmless.

This turned out not to be the case. My brain now has heavy metal (gadolinium) deposits which can never be removed, and increase my risk of death from any cause.

THANKS NHS.

I will never again believe what I am told by the NHS at face value.

What has been absolutely disgusting is the behaviour of the police. Hard for even the diehard Tories on here to justify their behaviour, try as they predictably might , when even Kate Middleton attended for a short while.

Obviously I absolutely do not condone the police brutality which seems to have taken place but we also don't have any context to the photograph that has come out.

If you mean the photo i think you do, is there any context at all that would make that photo okay?

In a pandemic, no crowds should be gathering, whether BLM or this horrendous murder. But much can be done, and more usefully, online. You can place a tea light down on some shrine or other with the best of intentions, but you could be much more useful to the cause by putting your protest in writing your MP. When thousands gather to protest one awful murder, I do wonder at the logic when statistically It seems probable that at least one person will die as a direct result of that gathering.

@AlwaysLatte

In a pandemic, no crowds should be gathering, whether BLM or this horrendous murder. But much can be done, and more usefully, online. You can place a tea light down on some shrine or other with the best of intentions, but you could be much more useful to the cause by putting your protest in writing your MP. When thousands gather to protest one awful murder, I do wonder at the logic when statistically It seems probable that at least one person will die as a direct result of that gathering.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/19/how-the-beach-super-spreader-myth-can-inform-uks-future-covid-response

“ According to Prof Mark Woolhouse, an epidemiologist at Edinburgh University who sits on the government’s SPI-M committee, the chance of a super-spreader event among the crowds that turned up from Bournemouth to Southend was minimal in theory – and nonexistent in practice.

Over the summer we were treated to all this on the television news, pictures of crowded beaches, and there was an outcry about this,” he told MPs. “There were no outbreaks linked to public beaches. There’s never been a Covid-19 outbreak linked to a beach, ever, anywhere in the world, to the best of my knowledge.”

@BonnieDundee

Obviously I absolutely do not condone the police brutality which seems to have taken place but we also don't have any context to the photograph that has come out.

If you mean the photo i think you do, is there any context at all that would make that photo okay?

There's plenty of context available online. She did not engage with him. He continued to speak to her as she looked away. He touched her unnecessarily and she did not react. Her body language was calm, still, turned away from him, not doing anything to escalate or provoke him. And then they flattened and cuffed her as other officers did the same to other women on the bandstand and the remainder of these burly men crowded to the edges to prevent a) others coming in, b) anybody seeing exactly what was being done to the women they'd put on the floor and c) any other photos being taken of what they were doing.

There is a very key difference between this protest and the BLM protests following the murder of George Floyd. In the case of George Floyd, the act took place while the coppers were on duty. The copper who killed him did it as a policeman. The man arrested for Sarah’s murder might be a copper but he was off duty; he did it as a private citizen. He wasn’t arresting her at the time.

Also, US police officers are very rarely convicted when they kill black people. Justice needs to be done and the protests were completely justified for this reason alone. There’s no reason to think that justice won’t be done in Sarah’s case. The protest is about male violence, not because there’s any risk that her killer will go free because he’s a copper.

I do think the vigil should have been allowed to go ahead, with feelings running so high. (I used to live in London when single and I might well have gone there myself.) But it can’t really be compared to the BLM protests.

@BonnieDundee

If you mean the photo i think you do, is there any context at all that would make that photo ok?

Of course there is. If the woman had been violent towards the police officer or was putting someone at risk for example.

It sounds as if this was not the case , in which case then it is absolutely not ok.

I'd be interested to know if all those who suddenly think it's ok to go against the law and meet in large groups outside, have been breaking this law themselves? All I see on Mumsnet is people complaining about others rule breaking, so I'm not sure why this vigil is deemed to be ok and other much smaller gatherings aren't.

twitter.com/khushcous/status/1370883994372485120?s=19

Last weekend the police enabled massive football crowds in the streets. No aggression. No kettling. No arrests. This is not about Covid. This is institutional misogyny enabled by Priti Patel's detemination to make all protests illegal - and her Bill will be voted on this Monday.

This not about Covid.

If a protest is noisy enough to have “impact” on a single person in the vicinity, the police can impose restrictions.

The Policing Bill is an attempt to stop protest.

Tell your MP to oppose it. t.co/7wp3J4Zg8L

She might have thought he was arresting her at the time.

And I very much doubt the man charged with her murder has never, ever, done something at the very least dubious or heavy handed with a woman during the course of his career before this.

There's no telling whether he will be found guilty or not or whether there will be a defence claimed such as insanity or something like 'she consented and it went wrong and I panicked' or, as has been used by a man before 'I found her dead on the street and decided it wouldn't matter what I did to the body'. There is no guarantee that he'll be found guilty at all. Acquittals for 'she liked it rough' or 'I snapped' happen frequently. There will, almost undoubtedly, be an argument that he had served the People for decades, lately in a prestigious position and his glittering career is now in ruins due to a moment of madness (or some such bullshit).

Of course there is. If the woman had been violent towards the police officer or was putting someone at risk for example.

There's videos itt that give the context

I personally dont believe there's any context that would make that picture acceptable. Would be quite interested to hear from serving police officers if that is considered an acceptable method of restraint

@AlwaysLatte

In a pandemic, no crowds should be gathering, whether BLM or this horrendous murder. But much can be done, and more usefully, online. You can place a tea light down on some shrine or other with the best of intentions, but you could be much more useful to the cause by putting your protest in writing your MP. When thousands gather to protest one awful murder, I do wonder at the logic when statistically It seems probable that at least one person will die as a direct result of that gathering.

How many times does this need to be said:

COVID transmission rates are negligible outdoors with good airflow. Studies have shown this time and again, and all this fearmongering about superspreader events is simply playing into the hands of Priti Patel and her obesession about outlawing peaceful protest.

@AlwaysLatte

In a pandemic, no crowds should be gathering, whether BLM or this horrendous murder. But much can be done, and more usefully, online. You can place a tea light down on some shrine or other with the best of intentions, but you could be much more useful to the cause by putting your protest in writing your MP. When thousands gather to protest one awful murder, I do wonder at the logic when statistically It seems probable that at least one person will die as a direct result of that gathering.

Great post. I agree.

Regardless of if it was illegal it was made far worse, for public health and for society by the actions of the police. If they had kept a respectful distance people would have got cold and gone home, instead they kettled people, forcing them close and then the arrests to. Instead of showing empathy for women who have a very valid concern they look the exact opposite. Not the met but did you see Rangers fans celebrating last week, that was tacitly allowed? The optics of police heavy handedness wil live long in the memory. The irony that the first female met commander will probably loose her job over a women’s safety vigil won’t be lost.

@DancingQueen85

YABU. Hundreds of people meeting in the middle of a pandemic is not ok. Thousands of families across the Uk have faced huge restrictions on the funerals of their loved ones. At one point only six people were allowed to attend. This is not the time to be meeting in a large group like this.

I can't see my Mum today on Mothers Day, the idea hundreds or thousands can gather together is ridiculous.

@Mittens030869

There is a very key difference between this protest and the BLM protests following the murder of George Floyd. In the case of George Floyd, the act took place while the coppers were on duty. The copper who killed him did it as a policeman. The man arrested for Sarah’s murder might be a copper but he was off duty; he did it as a private citizen. He wasn’t arresting her at the time.

Also, US police officers are very rarely convicted when they kill black people. Justice needs to be done and the protests were completely justified for this reason alone. There’s no reason to think that justice won’t be done in Sarah’s case. The protest is about male violence, not because there’s any risk that her killer will go free because he’s a copper.

I do think the vigil should have been allowed to go ahead, with feelings running so high. (I used to live in London when single and I might well have gone there myself.) But it can’t really be compared to the BLM protests.

The George Floyd incident had nothing to do with the UK at all.

George floyd and Sarah everard are not the same thing at all, not related, very very different set of circumstances.

BLM protests weren’t, I think, held in tier 4 lockdown.

As a teacher who has legally just spent the last week in my classroom for eight hours a day with numerous students, I'm calling all the Covid excuses out for the complete bullshit they are.

In May, the FA Cup final will be permitted to take place in front of fans. So in two months' time, Covid will magically no longer be transmissible but last night, it was still so dangerous that the Met couldn't come up with any way of working with the organisers of the vigil to reach a compromise?

@Tangogolf55 of course they are related just different people effected.

One shows police regard off people of different races and the other shoes their regard for women.

So all those women with ACAB placards were really attending the vigil to pay tribute to Sarah Everard and not cause trouble.... bollocks.

There were protestors causing trouble as well as genuine people paying tribute. It wasn’t about Sarah at all in the end.

@Tangogolf55 there is a particular video that is V V clear

Not the red head women but the women who was stood beside her. She was stood there yes holding a sign of some card but she didn’t not move and inch not even a arm when she was assaulted by police.

Hmmmm