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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

The vigil for Sarah Everard should be allowed to go ahead, just as the BLM protests were.

256 replies

Damnrightwrong · 12/03/2021 18:10

I'm frankly appalled that the police are opposing the vigil, it wasn't so long ago that people were flocking to central London in their thousands to protest on behalf of black lives matter.

Black lives do matter, and women's lives do too.

AIBU

OP posts:
MNHQ
LilyMumsnet · 14/03/2021 12:58

Hi folks

Can we be aware that whilst someone has been charged, there hasn't been a trial yet. It's fine to refer to the 'charged' person, but posts that speculate outright before the trial has taken place will be removed as this could be in contempt of court. If these posts continue, we may have to remove the thread. Flowers

SecretSpAD · 14/03/2021 13:34

Oops, sorry. I did wonder after I posted it whether I'd end up deleted.

BigPaperBag · 14/03/2021 13:41

YANBU that they should be allowed to go ahead. However, if you want to know why I voted YABU it’s not because I think the cause is invalid or unjustified. I just think that any rally right now is inappropriate and it doesn’t matter whether it’s for women’s rights, BLM or cancer. Right now, covid is our big focus and cramming too many people in a small place may end up spreading it and in more deaths. The rally can (and should) take place but just not now.

PurpleDaisies · 14/03/2021 14:00

Right now, covid is our big focus and cramming too many people in a small place may end up spreading it and in more deaths.

From Sir Patrick Vallance at the commons science committee this week... It is the case that it is difficult to see how things like large beach gatherings and so on can cause a spike. The same was the case in a protest march in New York; they did not really see any spikes after that.

You can read the transcript here.
committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/1845/html/

notrub · 14/03/2021 14:59

The fact is there are rules now against this kind of thing. If this event had been allowed to go ahead, then lots more different events would have gone ahead - if the police had THEN acted, they'd have been accused of double standards, and while an actual outdoor event is relatively low risk, multiplied by the number of people involved and it makes a difference at a time when our focus should be on keeping schools open, case numbers low and progressing the vaccinations.

The police can't win with this kind of thing and a large number of those "vigil" attenders knew it. This was very little to do with Sarah and a LOT to do with covid denialists/anti-lockdown protesters.

notrub · 14/03/2021 15:03

@Theunamedcat

Why did they state they arrested four women to keep the peace when the only one's i saw being arrested were kneeling peacefully?

Why was that police officer touching that woman on the bandstand without permission?

The police don't need permission to touch anyone lol.

If a person refuses to cooperate with a lawfully given police instruction they can and should be arrested.

notrub · 14/03/2021 15:06

[quote PurpleDaisies]Right now, covid is our big focus and cramming too many people in a small place may end up spreading it and in more deaths.

From Sir Patrick Vallance at the commons science committee this week... It is the case that it is difficult to see how things like large beach gatherings and so on can cause a spike. The same was the case in a protest march in New York; they did not really see any spikes after that.

You can read the transcript here.
committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/1845/html/[/quote]
He said something similar last February - since then hundreds of infections were traced back to Cheltenham.

Vallance also told Boris that covid was unlikely to ever make it to the UK and if it did, it wouldn't be any worse than regular flu.

So he's not really a go-to person for accurate predictions about covid.

1stmonkey · 14/03/2021 15:37

Why did they state they arrested four women to keep the peace when the only one's i saw being arrested were kneeling peacefully?

I suspect (i don't know because i wasn't there) it was because people on the bandstand were making soeeches. In doing so they were attracting crowds who were not maintaining social distance. They will have been asked to stop for that reason and chose not to. They will have been told which laws they were in breach of and advised that if they didn't comply with police instructions they would be arrested, and chose not to. Then they will have been arrested. I would guess either under public order or covid legislation.

1stmonkey · 14/03/2021 15:45

Yet another example of police escalating things to a level it didn't need to go.

Do you think the police choose how and when to step in? Are you aware of the role the Home Office and the Mayor of London's office play in police policy? Is there any awareness at all of the rules the police have been given to operate within? Or that they have been tasked with getting tougher on those breaking lockdown rules?

Any recognition at all that for hours yesterday the Met deliberately increased the presence of female officers? Or that today there has been a force wide mobilisation of female officers?

It's all very well sharing your opinion, but base on more than just what the Daily Mail feeds you.

MercyBooth · 14/03/2021 16:18

LOT to do with covid denialists/anti-lockdown protesters

Except they were wearing masks Covid deniers and anti lockdown protesters usually dont. It was clear that Patsy plus the elderly woman who was violently pushed was wearing one. Its not 1989
Hillsborough type tactics wont work now.

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 14/03/2021 16:25

The police don't need permission to touch anyone lol

Just like other men, you mean? That's not a laughing matter. When the gathering was about the issue of men continually steamrollering women's boundaries, touching somebody who was not reacting, not shouting, wearing a mask, looking away, not giving the officer anything resembling reasonable grounds to suppose that it would be necessary, touching her without consent beforehand was an attempt to escalate her into reacting. Or just symptomatic of the male entitlement to the female body. They're even told not to do it in training because it escalates situations.

MercyBooth · 14/03/2021 16:26

DH has just quoted this

"Dont scare someone so much that the person forgets what fear is"

MercyBooth · 14/03/2021 16:39

watching live on you tube Many of them are wearing face masks.

BonnieDundee · 14/03/2021 16:42

The fact is there are rules now against this kind of thing. If this event had been allowed to go ahead, then lots more different events would have gone ahead

Other events have gone ahead.

MercyBooth · 14/03/2021 16:47

They are being branded anti lockdowners and Covid deniers on here. On the live youtube feed they are being branded sheep for wearing masks
A womans place is in the wrong.

notrub · 14/03/2021 17:28

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

The police don't need permission to touch anyone lol

Just like other men, you mean? That's not a laughing matter. When the gathering was about the issue of men continually steamrollering women's boundaries, touching somebody who was not reacting, not shouting, wearing a mask, looking away, not giving the officer anything resembling reasonable grounds to suppose that it would be necessary, touching her without consent beforehand was an attempt to escalate her into reacting. Or just symptomatic of the male entitlement to the female body. They're even told not to do it in training because it escalates situations.

If you refuse to cooperate with a police officer's lawfully given instruction it doesn't matter WHAT you are doing - you are BREAKING THE LAW.

Perhaps this comes as a shock to you - I know there's a lot of self-entitled folk who think they can do anything the please and if they're told off, they get upset.

Comparing a police officer doing his duty to a sexual assault is just deceitful though - crawl back under your stone.

notrub · 14/03/2021 17:28

@BonnieDundee

The fact is there are rules now against this kind of thing. If this event had been allowed to go ahead, then lots more different events would have gone ahead

Other events have gone ahead.

Such as?
BonnieDundee · 14/03/2021 17:39

BLM protests. And did you see George Square in Glasgow last weekend?

notrub · 14/03/2021 21:13

@BonnieDundee

BLM protests. And did you see George Square in Glasgow last weekend?
Sigh - and I bet you were raging back then about how they shouldn't be allowed. You know that the rules have changed since then to explicitly ban outdoor events of this kind.... A fact I mentioned in my post.

As for last weekend - events widely condemned, but insufficient police manpower to do anything about it... your point is? That the police shouldn't have intervened yesterday in case the women got violent? Or that last weekend's event shouldn't have been condemned??

BonnieDundee · 14/03/2021 21:27

Sigh - and I bet you were raging back then about how they shouldn't be allowed

No, not sure where you got that idea Confused

your point is?

That the police wont take on a crowd of mostly men but women are fair game

Newpuppymummy · 14/03/2021 22:05

It’s actually making me angry watching the news with people saying they just wanted to pay their respects to Sarah. Her family asked people not to attend. It’s not paying respects to ignore their wishes. She was their daughter/granddaughter/sister. I don’t think people should be using her name to demonstrate. It’s not fair on her family who are suffering enough

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 14/03/2021 22:42

Comparing a police officer doing his duty to a sexual assault is just deceitful though - crawl back under your stone

You sound nice.

Touching somebody without their consent when they absolutely do not need to be dropped - which is what he did when speaking to her - isn't part of arrest procedures. He set off the instinctive reaction women have to men touching them. Look away, don't move, don't react, don't do anything to antagonise him. And then, when it kicked off further down, she was grabbed from behind and put on the floor. When she hadn't even moved an inch. That is excessive and unnecessary - she could have remained standing to be arrested, as she wasn't moving.

Might have been more use if more officers had actually done their duty before anybody went missing, mind.

Sometimeswinning · 14/03/2021 23:08

Unfortuantly covid makes it more of an issue. To me this is more important than the blm protests. So those comparing it need to back down.

thenightsky · 14/03/2021 23:12

@NeverDropYourMoonCup

Comparing a police officer doing his duty to a sexual assault is just deceitful though - crawl back under your stone

You sound nice.

Touching somebody without their consent when they absolutely do not need to be dropped - which is what he did when speaking to her - isn't part of arrest procedures. He set off the instinctive reaction women have to men touching them. Look away, don't move, don't react, don't do anything to antagonise him. And then, when it kicked off further down, she was grabbed from behind and put on the floor. When she hadn't even moved an inch. That is excessive and unnecessary - she could have remained standing to be arrested, as she wasn't moving.

Might have been more use if more officers had actually done their duty before anybody went missing, mind.

This.
MrsBerthaRochester · 14/03/2021 23:24

Football matches concerts and pub reopening very soon. All while still in a pandemic. But posters still condemning this under covid "rules"? Absolute crap. The right to protest is being taken away and so people don't seem to care? It's horrifying.
The reason the police acted like they did was BECAUSE it was women led and they knew they could! Get your heads around that!