Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

[Twintub]

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

I honestly can't recall experiencing anything like this. Fully accept that I'm in a small minority, though.

Nothing has changed. I'm mid 60s and experienced it from a young age.

My DDs late twenties/early thirties. Yes, them too. And it is nothing about giving out a vibe of 'don't touch me'. My DDs are strong and very very confident women.

I wish posters would stop saying it's because of a vibe you give it.

One of my DDs... well, she could have sold her story to the papers. Prince George's school. The minibus drivers that parked on the road she walked to work, used to daily call out the most revolting things to her.
She wrote the strongest most well worded forceful email to the Principal. They nearly shat themselves, as you can imagine.

Thats not true at all.

1. You get loads of female cat callers. Ever seen an average hen party on a night out?

1. You don't get female flashers for the same reason men don't flash other men, becuase they know they would get punched by someone who is likely to win the fight.

It is about power though, and as soon as women have it, they act in the same way men do.

Male stripper get treated a lot worse than female strippers. Trust me.

I actually find it hard to believe any woman hasn’t been harassed, even at a low level. I often women if some women just don’t recognise it as harassment. Even as recently as yesterday I was happily walking by the canal and a fisherman in his 50s, sitting with his friend, made the ‘you should smile, love’ comment whilst I was minding my own business walking along. I don’t think anyone has even said that to my DP.

And of course, that is low level. I’ve been catcalling, groped, insulted and sexualised about my picture by innocently commenting on social media, sent unsolicited dick pics, hit, choked - and raped. All accounts are by different men. That’s an awful lot of men.

I definitely have a friend who wouldn’t find catcalling etc harassment, so she probably wouldn’t consider it as such. But even then, she’s been abused by her ex husband so wouldn’t count herself out of the list.

Anyone who says it’s rare is being ignorant at best, but more likely trying to be disingenuous. I don’t believe anyone can think it’s rare.

I've had so many experience of sexual harassment and sexual assault, I could write pages of examples. I'll just give this one, I was walking to a shop down a busy street in the middle of the day, a group of young men were hanging round. One called out to me. I ignored and kept walking. Next thing I knew he had thrown me to the ground. He threw me with such force my trousers were ripped and my hands were bruised for days afterwards, I struggled to cook for myself as couldn't open jars and tins.

Male harassment? No I don't think I have - there is no situation I can remember where I felt harassed.
Although it does depend on how you define harassment. Wolf whistles and poor chat up lines would go under the radar for me but may be massively triggering for another woman. As far as inappropriate sexual advances and groping go then no I haven't experienced that.

I sometimes think "I haven't had much experience of harassment by men". Then I remember the time I was coming back to my flat late at night and a man hanging about on the street tried to push his way into the front door with me, I knew DH was away but I pretended he was there and screamed really loudly. It's not something I think about a lot to the extend that it takes a while for it to come to my mind if I am thinking "have I been harassed by men", but it could have ended very differently indeed.
And that is without all the randomers falling into step beside me as I was walking along and trying to chat to me, telling me to cheer up as I passed them, commenting on my appearance and body as I walked past. I have minimised it to the extent that my initial thought to myself is "oh I haven't had much of a problem" -but I have.

Sadly nobody I know. It's happened to me repeatedly since I was 11 years old and I'm still met with the 'Not all men are bad' brigade, which I'm fully aware of, but that's little consolation when all of the men a woman has met many have been utter thrash

i don’t do anything to provoke unwanted attention though and I think that makes a big difference

I was walking down the street in broad daylight with my two children and a builder shouted ‘nice tits’ at me. What was I doing wrong?

You’re part of the problem.

@Freshprincess wow that's awful and in front of your kids too. Something similar happened to me, walking along the street and a car full of guys shouting 'Hey bitch ' and blasting the horn at me

actually find it hard to believe any woman hasn’t been harassed, even at a low level. I often women if some women just don’t recognise it as harassment.

How offensive can you be? Are you accusing us to be thick or something?

I never said I had never been harassed, and even physically attacked, but it was by females. Am I to blame there or something? I have something that attract female violence?

I currently work in a men environment. I worked in female environments, and the only problems I experience were with some women. I have met very competitive and very unpleasant men, but I can assure you the behaviour was pretty gender neutral.

It's a bit rich to be accused of lying because I haven't been groped, touched, abused, sent dick pics! The only men who I know came too close were pick pockets FFS! So it's my fault?!

Wolf whistles and poor chat up lines would go under the radar for me but may be massively triggering for another woman - this is what I mean - it might go under the radar and did to a certain extent for me, but it is still bloody annoying and cumulatively anxiety provoking. I think there is a difference between a poor chat up line in a nightclub and someone falling into step with you as you walk home and trying to chat you up.

It is about power though, and as soon as women have it, they act in the same way men do. I can't imagine a woman trying to push her way into a male complete stranger's flat in the middle of the night as they tried to open their front door.

@HaNNaHC92

I'm 28 and have not experienced male harassment or even come close to. There's obviously a lot of women out there who have been, but I think the numbers are exaggerated and are still small compared to those who have not been.

I am sorry, but this is such nonsense, and so out of the experience of any woman I have ever known - particularly ones in their 20s, or their experiencece while in their 20s - and combined with something else you've done here, I'm highly suspicious of you.

I wish posters would stop saying it's because of a vibe you give it.

Why else is it then? We are not going to say "I am probs fugly so that's why I've never had anyone from car shouting sexual stuff at me or anyone on public transport groping me". The only logical explanation is that some women do genuinely have some kind of vibe which stops this? What else?

@TheImber

Thats not true at all.

1. You get loads of female cat callers. Ever seen an average hen party on a night out?

1. You don't get female flashers for the same reason men don't flash other men, becuase they know they would get punched by someone who is likely to win the fight.

It is about power though, and as soon as women have it, they act in the same way men do.

Male stripper get treated a lot worse than female strippers. Trust me.

You’ve said yourself, here, that women would be punched if they flashed a man. It comes back to power, strength and dominance.

You’re trying to extrapolate out your limited experience of one very particular set of circumstances in a public place with lots other people around where you are in no danger, to try and equate it to everything being described here by women who have been persistently physically and mentally abused on the basis of their sex.

As a man, you haven’t experienced what women do and can’t experience the same feelings of fear and shame which are forced upon us. I think you would do well to read all of this thread carefully and think about how the female experience differs from yours. You could become a great ally and advocate for the right of women not to be treated as you were, and the many many far worse ways in which they suffer daily at the hands of men.

I’m nearly 50, I experienced a lot of unwanted sexual harassment in my teens and 20s. I feel pretty much invisible these days which i love. However I’ve started a new job and the boss is very over familiar, makes me very uncomfortable.

Why else is it then? We are not going to say "I am probs fugly so that's why I've never had anyone from car shouting sexual stuff at me or anyone on public transport groping me". The only logical explanation is that some women do genuinely have some kind of vibe which stops this? What else?

What else? Because I cannot believe anyone who is female hasn't had something of this nature happen. Maybe they dismiss it.

It's nothing to do with a vibe. My DD would give out the most 'don't fuck with me' vibe but it's happened to her.
Me too... but it's happened to me

Saying it's a vibe is almost like saying it's something we should have learnt to repel.
We can't. We're just female

I can tell you that every girl at my old school was, there was a man whose house overlooked the school field. Our PE lessons were sex segregated, and if a class of girls was on the field he'd appear at his window naked. Never did it when the boys were doing PE funnily enough.

I couldn't even begin to count how many girls he flashed.

@SweetPetrichor

I’m 31 and I have never been harassed, cat called, touched, groped or anything untoward. I work in a male dominated environment as well which ups the stakes. Maybe I’m just ugly...or maybe it’s not as much of an issue as people think. I don’t do anything to provoke unwanted attention though and I think that makes a big difference.

This comment is disgusting.

I'm really fucking pleased for you that you never experienced this shit, but to imply that women do something to ask for it is just gross.

What did I do to "provoke unwanted attention" at 6 when a 12 year old boy tried to rape me??

What did I do to "provoke unwanted attention" as an INNOCENT FUCKING CHILD OF 9 who, on a hot day, went to the ice cream van in her swim suit and was leered at and said disgusting things to, even though I didn't understand what he said I knew it was wrong and I was terrified??

As a pre teen girl in school uniform getting cat called, leered at, shouted at with things like "I want to cum on your tits"??

How the fuck is any of that my fucking fault??

That's just the first in a long list of what I and EVERY WOMAN I KNOW has experienced, from serious rape to being wanked at on the tube, to "friends" giving you a hug and touching your arse....

I've never met a woman who hasn't experienced it. Including me. I've met a lot that just see it as one of those things. Lots of colleagues as a female manager and senior manager where it was perfectly acceptable to hint we had slept our way to the top and make innuendos to that effect to us.

I've had this discussion with DP because he is a male in an extremely female dominated industry and in all fairness he has been sexually harrased as well (genuinely 3 days after we met , well before we were together I had to warn a female member of my staff for pinning him up against a wall making inappropriate suggestions)

DP does sometimes have a blind spot and can be a bit " Men experience this too" , and they absolutely do. However he went very quiet and started to think about it when I pointed out it happened to a lot of us , including me , while we were still at school.

I described some of the comments and calls that my friends and I had heard from "seemingly" respectable men whilst in our school uniforms.

I reminded him that I was taught from aged 11 not to walk in lonely places , to hold my key in my hand.

He knows where I grew up its suburban respectability.

He got it then and felt a bit sick. Recently he called out someone on his course for making a secist comment.

But no...I have never met a woman who has never experienced it

@SchrodingersImmigrant

I wish posters would stop saying it's because of a vibe you give it.

Why else is it then? We are not going to say "I am probs fugly so that's why I've never had anyone from car shouting sexual stuff at me or anyone on public transport groping me". The only logical explanation is that some women do genuinely have some kind of vibe which stops this? What else?

So when I was a shy 12 year old in plaits, a school uniform a bit too big for me and NHS glasses, walking home from school, I was ‘giving off a vibe’ that invited grown men in a scaffolding lorry stopped at traffic lights to shout disgusting sexual things at me? And laugh when I started crying?

ODFOD.

When I was 13 I was catcalled by men. When I was 14 I was sexually assaulted at a concert. When I was 16, my drink was spiked and I was sexually assaulted. I’ve been groped in clubs throughout my late teens and early 20s. I stopped going because I feel panicky. I get catcalled every time I pass a group of men.

MrsTulip

I think we are violently agreeing. It absolutely is about power. Men have more power than women physically, but physical isn't the only kind of power.

I maintain that when a women is in a percieved dominant position, she is just as likely to act in an inappropriate way as a man. I've experienced it and described that experience in this thread.

You keep ignoring and minimising what I've said. Just because my assaults and harassment took place in public, does that mean they aren't as valid? Would you tell a women who was harrased in a public place the same thing? That they weren't in any real danger so its not as bad?

I spoke to my DD about all of this, this morning.

Her friend a teacher, only 2 days ago, pizza delivery bloke questioning her... did she live on her own, did she have a boyfriend, all that sort of stuff. When she said she had a boyfriend and he lived with her (she doesn't, she was worried so made it up) he said... 'he must have a small appetite then, you've only ordered one pizza' and winked at her.

She was bricking it I can tell you.

And yes, she did report him.

But does that help? He'll lose his job maybe and he knows where she lives.

This sort of thing happens all the time