Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

[Twintub]

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

People are allowed to keep things privately obviously, but I haven't got 1 single friend who has ever exposed being a victim of rape or sexual violence in any case.

I have friends who wouldn't even go alone from their car to their house at night (and that's their right!), or who would never consider taking a train past 8pm alone, so it's not like anyone is pretending to be superwoman. None I know has ever come out and mention sexual violence.

I am not pretending things don't happen, anymore that I am pretending that children don't get abused! I am just saying that my own experience is not that "ever single woman has been a victim".

Like most people on this thread I’ve had multiple experiences like this, ranging from catcalls to being raped in the street by a stranger. But mostly it’s been men touching me or rubbing up against me in crowds, or pestering me on public transport when I’d made it clear (politely but firmly) that I wasn’t interested.
I’m 53 now and it doesn’t really happen any more. The sad irony is that now, with the confidence and awareness of age, I’d quite happily publicly shame someone who was harassing me, which I’d have been too nervous to do in my youth. If only the teenage me could have been as ballsy as the middle aged me.

But maybe that’s one of the reasons women my age aren’t targeted. Young people are easier prey.

A former friend of mine who is now full on #notallmen #antifeminist and blames women for everything including meto and domestic violence claims the stats are all exaggerated and nothing has happened that her. Yet in the time I've known her she has had 2 serious situations involving the police involving harassment from men towards her 1 from a mere aquaintance and another from a partner. You can't make it up

One time on a dance floor a man I was dancing with took my willingness to dance with him as an invitation to jam one hand down my trousers and the other hand to hold me in place.

He was not removed from the club.

Just how fucking dare you or anyone else try and use your incredibly rare and lucky non harrasment to invalidate everyone else's experience, or, even worse, claim it's fucking exaggerated.

Me and my partner had a row a few years ago cos I said it was pretty much all men, and he was offended.
We had the conversation again last night and he admitted he was wrong and sorry, that yeah if he thought about it, even the "good guys" he knows (and himself!) have behaved dubiously in the past.

Its a start!

But please fucking stop assuming you did something "right" and the rest of us did something "wrong".

Its so offensive and victim blaming that it makes me fill up with angry, spitting rage

Debbie

We're not talking just sexual violence here!

Like the pizza guy I just mentioned. Like the sitting next to you on the bus and trying to chat you up despite you looking out the window.

That isn't sexual assault. It is harrassment and women experience it every single day

Of course what you describe is wrong. OF COURSE.

However.

Did those women make you afraid? Did you fear that after you’d rejected them they might corner you in the toilets to hurt you? Were you afraid to leave the club in case they followed you home? Did you change your behaviour to try to deflect their attention? Did you fear their greater physical size and strength? Were you afraid they’d kill you?

No. He's probably just been afraid to lose his job over a complaint from a woman who wasn't happy she couldn't grope him. Probably afraid that the woman may cry rape anyway, he'll get arrested, taken to court and eventually let off with it, but he'll be forever marked while the woman gets off with it.

There's been tons of women who have done that to men. And men aren't allowed to talk about it because of the attitudes they get when they do. It's either people laughing at them for it, or saying 'it's not a big deal, we deal with far worse'.

To quote people on here, it's not a race to the bottom. Women do get killed way more than men, yes. That does not ever give women the right to do things to men, accuse them of false offences and walk away free from it. Ever. We shouldn't stoop to their level, rise above it.

Yep I've experienced it. Way too many times to remember sadly. Including from someone I was at one point married to. It's horrible and it makes me extremely wary of all men.

I’m 53 now and it doesn’t really happen any more. The sad irony is that now, with the confidence and awareness of age, I’d quite happily publicly shame someone who was harassing me, which I’d have been too nervous to do in my youth. If only the teenage me could have been as ballsy as the middle aged me

^^ This.

I also think we forget all the times it happened, because back in the 80s it was considered normal. I couldn’t possibly recall all the times I’d had my bum/thigh patted at work - half the time I barely registered it, because it was so commonplace. I almost wish I could go back there, and tell the men loudly to get their filthy hands off me!

@TheImber

MrsTulip

I think we are violently agreeing. It absolutely is about power. Men have more power than women physically, but physical isn't the only kind of power.

I maintain that when a women is in a percieved dominant position, she is just as likely to act in an inappropriate way as a man. I've experienced it and described that experience in this thread.

You keep ignoring and minimising what I've said. Just because my assaults and harassment took place in public, does that mean they aren't as valid? Would you tell a women who was harrased in a public place the same thing? That they weren't in any real danger so its not as bad?

Absolutely not, and I haven’t said that. I said from the outset that what you experienced was wrong. Acting inappropriately is, by its nature, inappropriate.

But we are talking here about experiences which leave women and girls in fear of their safety, and that is the point I am trying to make. I hope you might, from your own experiences, have some empathy with that position. Did you fear for your safety after your experiences? Did you fear that one of these women would kill you because you rejected them? Men just don’t have to feel this fear in the same way that women do.

@ClarkeGriffin

Of course what you describe is wrong. OF COURSE.

However.

Did those women make you afraid? Did you fear that after you’d rejected them they might corner you in the toilets to hurt you? Were you afraid to leave the club in case they followed you home? Did you change your behaviour to try to deflect their attention? Did you fear their greater physical size and strength? Were you afraid they’d kill you?

No. He's probably just been afraid to lose his job over a complaint from a woman who wasn't happy she couldn't grope him. Probably afraid that the woman may cry rape anyway, he'll get arrested, taken to court and eventually let off with it, but he'll be forever marked while the woman gets off with it.

There's been tons of women who have done that to men. And men aren't allowed to talk about it because of the attitudes they get when they do. It's either people laughing at them for it, or saying 'it's not a big deal, we deal with far worse'.

To quote people on here, it's not a race to the bottom. Women do get killed way more than men, yes. That does not ever give women the right to do things to men, accuse them of false offences and walk away free from it. Ever. We shouldn't stoop to their level, rise above it.

ClarkeGriffin

Exactly this.

I'm sure professional man pleasers like Katie Hopkins and Julia Hartley Brewer are busy getting dusting off their Twitter fingers to accuse us all of being hysterical

[quote ErrolTheDragon]Here's an article about the levels of harassment of young women.
I'm 60 and tbh never have been, but I know I'm a lucky outlier.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/10/almost-all-young-women-in-the-uk-have-been-sexually-harassed-survey-finds[/quote]
It's not too late, @ErrolTheDragon.

Late last summer, some fuckwit grabbed my arse when I was putting the shopping in the car. Broad daylight, busy car park and I'm sixty-fucking-five!

I shouted out "Fuck off you filthy perve" as he walked away, which got some puzzled looks from shoppers walking past.

I've been flashed at, groped, asked for sexual acts from random men... and even with that, I count myself fairly fortunate when it come to levels of harassment. Its so depressing.

This thread has made me fucking sooo angry.

That soo many of us suffer this shit.
That there are still fucking people implying we asked for it, that we did something wrong, that we are the problem, that men have problems with violence too.
We can't even go to the fucking police most of the time, even without the latest incident, we can't trust them

I think the vast majority of women have experienced harassment or male violence at some point. Unfortunately, I think some of this behaviour is normalised to such an extent that women don't necessarily recognise it for what it is.

I was sexually assaulted as a teenager. A man put his hand up my skirt. It took decades before I actually recognised that this was a sexual assault. I had a teacher at school who used to pinch girls' bottoms. I have been groped on trains and in crowds. I have had lewd comments shouted at me in the street. There are some instances that stand out in my mind as having been particularly disturbing, but to be honest, there are others which barely registered because they are just part of the "normal" experience of being a woman. All of them contribute to the general sense of not being safe as a female.

This thread is specifically about how many women have suffered from male harassment, if anyone wants to discuss something else they're free to start their own thread rather than derailing or merailing this one. If they've got any stats similar to the ones in the guardian link upthread, they should post it there.

I'm going to revise my original response. I had a bloke sit too close to me when I was on a nearly empty bus as a teenager. I've had a GP with a penchant for what I belatedly realised were TUBEs (totally unnecessary breast examinations). I used to get the 'smile, it may never happens' when I was younger.

I’ve never been harassed by men but I’m a freaking psycho who isn’t worth the trouble.

I’m the kind of crazy bitch who breaks up male fights, disperses vandalising teenagers and gets up in the face of my crazy uncle who’s got issues (asbos/ prisons etc.)

Blokes have said to me “smile luv” but it’s met with a “go fuck yourself”.

I probably sound like a rough nut* but I’m actually quite a nice lady but I will not be bullied or made to feel uncomfortable in my space.

*not wanting to feel like a bad bitchy psycho is one of the reasons women don’t like to stand their ground. I’m not victim blaming...it’s part of the social pressure that controls women.

I'd love the apologists to come back and explain how at fucking 6, or 9, or 12 I was "provoking attention" or did something wrong.

Please explain how a 9 year old going to an ice cream van is somehow asking for it l.

I don't know any female that hasn't been subjected to harassment by men.
I was flashed at as a child
Some guy tried to get me in his car
I was flashed at as an adult
I was hit on by 3 diff men at some conference I went on for work
I have been groped
Touched in clubs
Men have sat down and tried to talk to me and when I tell them to leave me alone they carry on and when told to F off they get aggressive and called me names
I've been wolf whistled at
I'm sure there is more.

Let’s not forget the shame and trauma that surrounds being a victim of rape, sexual abuse, domestic violence.

In mid 40s and despite having suffered from 2 of these things, my oldest friends and even DH don’t know the half of it. It’s just too traumatic.

@zoemum2006

I’ve never been harassed by men but I’m a freaking psycho who isn’t worth the trouble.

I’m the kind of crazy bitch who breaks up male fights, disperses vandalising teenagers and gets up in the face of my crazy uncle who’s got issues (asbos/ prisons etc.)

Blokes have said to me “smile luv” but it’s met with a “go fuck yourself”.

I probably sound like a rough nut* but I’m actually quite a nice lady but I will not be bullied or made to feel uncomfortable in my space.

*not wanting to feel like a bad bitchy psycho is one of the reasons women don’t like to stand their ground. I’m not victim blaming...it’s part of the social pressure that controls women.

That's the probably "the vibe". This is what I was talking about not "oh they deserve it" but that some women have "the vibe".

But nah. I get DFOD and it gets twisted into me saying someone was asking for it. 🤷🏻

I think that the amount of women who haven't faced sexual harassment is very small. I havent faced harassment myself in several years, I thought maybe things had got better, but I'm becoming aware that it was more likely that I was left alone because of my morbid obesity.

I've recently lost quite a lot of weight. Men shouting sexual things at me and following me isn't irregular now. I'm no stunner, I'm still fat but I am getting the same sort of treatment I had years ago, and its scary to realise in becoming healthier, I've opened myself back up to the risks that I thought had gone away.

I am not pretty, I am not slim, I do not wear make up, and walk around in drab clothes that are 3 sizes too big, even with a 40kg dog at the end of the lead, its not always enough of a deterrent.

Its scary to be a woman.

@DebbieGetsTheJobDone and @BuggerBognor

I am saying I think posters saying it is rare are being disingenuous. Not people who haven’t experienced it. Look at this thread alone. The vast, vast majority have experienced some level of harassment and yet some posters are suggesting it’s rare and doesn’t really happen like that.

You are both incredibly lucky to not have any unwanted comments or attacks purely in virtue of you being a women. I think you’re experiences are rare - not the other way around.