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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

999 replies

Twintub · 12/03/2021 08:31

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

OP posts:
nanbread · 12/03/2021 10:07

I've been harassed and/or sexually assaulted COUNTLESS times:

At school
On the street
At work, both in the office and working away
In bars and clubs
At parties
By colleagues
By my boss
On a plane
On a train
In a pub
In a hotel
By security guards and bouncers
Via text
Via social media

And once, by a woman.

Based on my experiences I'm amazed any woman makes it to their late 20s without a single incident.

SnakesandKnives · 12/03/2021 10:07

The truth is I have no idea why it’s never happened, but it hasn’t - and it would be interesting to know why! (You’d have to ask the menz...) smile
I’d like to believe it’s that you have luckily not encountered those sorts of men. I’d also like to believe that a lot of the stories involve the same men and it’s actually a small section who think any of this behaviour is acceptable. I’d also really like Unicorns to be real too......

It isn’t all men and does generally seem to be certain types but it’s so depressing that there are enough of them that literally everyone has an experience or two at least.

As OP alludes to...bet these same men would be incandescent with rage if they thought someone was doing it to Their daughter.

Sandgrown1970 · 12/03/2021 10:07

My Father raised me more like a boy than a girl too,

Didn’t stop the fact that, whilst he was with me in restaurants and on holiday in the U.K., at aged TEN and TWELVE, I was verbally sexually harassed by groups of men his age.

At aged 12, in a busy McDonalds at 12pm on a Saturday I was sexually assaulted whilst surrounded by people. Someone in the crowd, grabbed me and started touching my bottom and vulva. What’s my Dad got to do with that? Could any father stop a man with bad intentions? If we want to carry on with the victim blaming... I was wearing jeans, trainers, a baggy sweatshirt. Oh...and I was a child...

And despite never doing internet dating, not being much of a clubber, not walking home alone at night, not being a “princess”...the harassment continued into adulthood. Does it make any difference that I was a virgin until I was married too?

On public transport in broad daylight.

At church (several times!)

Walking home from work in broad daylight.

In every place of education I’ve ever been in except nursery - school, university, night school, 3 day first aid at work ffs!

By workmen in my own home.

By a doctor, in the presence of my mother, aged 15.

Obviously I gave up my broad daylight runs outside my house because everyone knows that’s just asking for it right?

I’ve had to involve police at times. Other times I’ve been too scared to involve police.

No upbringing or behaviour, or way of dressing, or curtailing of your own life etc etc can stop men determined on harassing, abusing, or degrading you. Sometimes you just have to be a woman or a female child in the presence of a man or teenage boy. That’s all it takes.

Let’s not say a different upbringing or changing your behaviour or the way you dress can change anything. It’s the toxic culture we have that needs changing. It’s so disrespectful to women to suggest that maybe the way you carry yourself or dress is what’s made you one of the lucky ones.

ErrolTheDragon · 12/03/2021 10:07

The truth is I have no idea why it’s never happened

Statistical fluke?
There are doubtless factors which may tend to make one woman somewhat more or less likely to be harassed (though never immune from the possibility). Many of these are completely out of her control, and none of them reasons she should be expected to modify her behaviour. The fault is 100% with the perpetrators, and with the culture of tolerance for what should be unacceptable behaviour by the harassers.

soughsigh · 12/03/2021 10:07

I can remember at maybe age 7, I was in a swimming pool abroad on a family holiday. There were some slightly older boys there and they took off their trunks and paraded around the pool naked to intimidate me and my sister. Our dad (not present at the time) told us to wiggle our little fingers and say 'little' in their language.

So that's how young men are when they think they can intimidate women, maybe 11 or something?

I also class cat calling as sexual harrassment. I had a conversation with a colleague about it, he thought that he was just paying the lady a compliment. I explained that it really wasn't, it makes you feel extremely vulnerable - he just didn't get it. I doubt there are many women that haven't been cat called.

Nuitsdesetoiles · 12/03/2021 10:07

@Aquariussuns

Yes. I have been beeped at by men and heckled as a young school child with uniform on, groped in public places, had a man who I trusted enter me without a condom when I had been very clear that a condom was a prerequisite to our sex, I have had a friends male neighbour verbally harass me as a teenager, I know more women then I can count on both hands who have been the victims of violence at the hands of their partners and fathers, I know women who have been coerced in to sex, I have witnessed vile objectification in a corporate workplace and normalisation of the harassment of women to the point where our director had to host a meeting with the males in our company ASKING them not to grope women at the Christmas party.... I mean the list is endless
When I was a ward sister some time ago I had to have a similar meeting. Asking the male support workers NOT to harass and try it on with every single female student nurse, and basically to LEAVE THEM ALONE. It's almost like they were rubbing their hands together with glee every time one of them started a placement. The only reason I just got the looks and not the comments from them was because I was in a position of seniority.
notagainsurely · 12/03/2021 10:09

I was thinking about this the other day.

As a 13/14 year old waitress in a pub, the owner groped and pinched our bums every day once he had given us the hot plates of food to take out. He was head chef and he encouraged it for the other chefs too. So we'd have plates of steaming hot food and as we turned to go out the door we'd be groped. Happened to all the waitresses, all of us under 16, two or three times per day.

Also been wolf whistled and heckled at many times, and told to "smile it may never happen" if you didn't smile back at them.

Worked in television as an adult and Groped multiple times by the senior boss at work. I was 22, he was in his 50s or 60s.

Another boss there made a pass at me. When I defected him, my career came to a sudden halt. His next girlfriend was promoted and made famous on the TV, and she became his wife. When they split up her career came to a sudden halt as he was no longer giving her the work on TV.

That was commonplace where I worked...the females who allowed the male bosses to sleep with them / date them were given all the presenting shifts they wanted on screen. The irony was that they moaned and bitched about it when their relationships came to an end, and they were suddenly no longer flavour of the month and the new flame of the boss suddenly got all the presenting shifts,

I can say with all honesty that many of the presenters on TV that became famous 10-25 years ago did so as a result of sleeping or at least heavily flirting with and allowing groping by the bosses. That's at a world famous broadcaster. I don't know if it still goes on but if I had to put money on it I would say it's still commonplace, but unrecognised by the organisation and will never be publicly acknowledged by the women who've become famous; they seem to believe their own narrative that they got there through hard work and talent.

It's not quite the same as harassment, but then again it is.....I turned down advances and groping from two senior bosses and saw my flourishing career grind to a halt. I also witnessed it in others many times.

emilyfrost · 12/03/2021 10:10

I’m mid thirties and never been sexually harassed 🤷‍♀️

RapidFire · 12/03/2021 10:11

Things weren't too bad for me after about age 25 as I think I'd become a lot more confident and assertive by then.

My worst year was aged 20 though. The highlights were:

a) I had an interview for a PA job with a close friend's businessman dad, who came straight to the point and told me if I would agree to weekly sex he would buy me nice clothes and jewellery and take me monthly to Paris. I politely left and never told my friend (we're still in touch on social media).

b) After the interview I called on a couple I knew who lived nearby. The woman was out but the man invited me in for a quick coffee, after which he asked me to go to bed with him. I politely left again.

InfoInfoInfo · 12/03/2021 10:12

I did when younger not at all now.

I have had a rape attempt and a man wank off as I walked by and ended up with his sperm on my coat. Disgusting, he ran off and was never caught. Police officer at that time said don't walk through the cemetery (it was around 5.10 pm and not dark and people to visit to lay flowers etc - so what the heck! - must have been my fault for innocently walking home from work). Sign of the times back then it was always the woman's fault (Oh wait it still is ...although a police officer saying that now would hopefully be reprimanded since a man could happily wander through said cemetery).

The usual wolf whistles when young and from a very young age - made me feel very uncomfortable and at 13 years old a slightly older teenage boy decided to grab my boob as I walked past - that's what they did back in the day! Treated like a piece of meat by some men.

Fortunately, my ex husband and current partner are nothing like that at all. Some women have partners like that too - must be a living nightmare.

Maskedrevenger · 12/03/2021 10:16

I don’t know any woman who hasn’t been harassed and I’m in my sixties now. Just some of my experiences - I was flashed at age 13 catcalled from age 15, having big breasts seems to imply you welcome the attention. My first boss would lean over me at work and “accidentally” brush his hands across my breasts. Grabbed by the crotch at a concert. Used to go to a gym located near our local “ red light area” I was curb crawled with men asking for various sex acts so many times while I was carrying gym bag in baggy joggers, so obviously not a sex worker, I had to give up going to that gym. Years ago pre mobiles etc I went to visit a “safe” male friend for a weekend ended up having to barricade my bedroom door until I could leave early next morning as he wouldn’t take no for an answer when he tried it on. An ex tried to rape me.
I’m too old to experience it now but as both my DIL’s have experienced various forms of harassment I don’t feel confident it’s going to be much different for my granddaughters.

PissTestRightNowDaniella · 12/03/2021 10:16

I have walked up to my front door to find a bloke wanking whilst standing next to it. He had walked past me on the street, saw where I was heading, then ran off ahead of me, stopping by my front door.
It's hard to describe the layout of the street and the property but I genuinely believe to this day (and it happened in 1992) that he actually meant to let me walk past where he was, then follow me to where he thought I was going, then attack me. I think he was wanking to 'get ready'
There was no way he could have known I lived there, and me walking up to the door with my keys in my hand threw him.
What saddened me even more was the police response - someone else had reported a similar incident with the perpetrator matching the description I'd given.
She responded by being very shaken up, crying etc. I responded to mine with cool anger causing the female PC to question my account of my experience, because my response wasn't 'textbook'

I have a friend who had someone ejaculate on her sleeve on the metro in Paris.

I have another friend who, despite telling him to stop, was fisted on a first date, resulting in requiring hospital treatment.

So many examples.

Too many examples

BrilliantBetty · 12/03/2021 10:17

Almost all of the sexual harassment I faced (including some very serious, police involvement etc) happened age 13 - 20.

As a younger teenager I was very scared walking around as men would look and say things, try and grope. I remember shouting to one middle aged man "leave my friend alone she is only 12!!" And he did thank god but only because passers by were looking. When Bluetooth was a popular thing for sending messages and I got my first dick pic on a bus, on my Nokia age 13. By 16 I was so very used to it and it felt so normal to effectively be harassed. And it was almost always by grown men.

This isn't some ancient recollection. This was the naughties. 2003- Sad

knittingaddict · 12/03/2021 10:17

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

I would also like to add something about this from the op. My dad is far from perfect, but he would rather die than act like the kind of men we are talking about. It's not in his nature.

Also I married my husband 37 years ago and one of his most appealing features was his empathy and his respect for women. There are many men out there who make great fathers to their daughters. The only thing we did wrong was to not give them the tools to recognise a toxic man, but that was out of our own ignorance and lack of experience.

Their was a man on the BBC last night talking about toxic masculinity and how it was men who needed to do the work now and that women had done enough. He was excellent and it was so refreshing to see. Decent men need to step up and challenge the misogyny of the men around them. While it's a men versus women debate I don't see much changing.

BuggerBognor · 12/03/2021 10:19

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

BashfulClam · 12/03/2021 10:21

I’ve been spat on for asking someone to stop pestering me, been groped several times, followed, catcalled, flashed, had a man rub his private’s whilst staring intently at me on a late train, had a guy make me realty uncomfortable whilst waiting to meet my husband as he kept moving into my personal discernment and trying to talk to me about urinating...what angers me is we are the ones who have to rake responsibility for our safety. The scumbags that do this make us responsible for their vile actions!!!!

BrilliantBetty · 12/03/2021 10:23

@PissTestRightNowDaniella wow. That is very scary.
Did you find out who he was?

PamDemic · 12/03/2021 10:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lilacpheonix · 12/03/2021 10:25

@Iqqq

I've been harassed by both men and women
Same here.
EmpressSuiko · 12/03/2021 10:26

I’m 32, I’ve experienced violence from men, physically and verbally.
I’ve been groped, cat called, threatened, followed, been sent inappropriate messages, harassed daily by a stranger and a lot of this happened when I was younger and still in education but even since having children I’ve continued to experience a level of unwanted attention from men even when I’ve had my children with me.
It’s terrifying, I’m always on my guard when I go out alone for fear of what a man could do to me.

Brown76 · 12/03/2021 10:28

Followed around, hassled and stared at by colleague at place of work.
Verbally abused for not talking to/giving my number to/interacting with men that I barely knew.
Shouted at in the street.
Touched up in public places.

It hasn’t been very ‘severe’ but it has moderated what I wear and how I’ve acted all my life and I’ve played down my appearance to not attract any more volume of unwanted attention (even though I shouldn’t have to).

TheImber · 12/03/2021 10:29

I'm a man.

Back in the day I used to go to the gym a lot, had a good body, was considered good looking.

I used to make money at uni selling shots on nights out. Youve seen that sort of thing before im sure, I used to walk around nightclubs, no top on, just jeans and a belt carrying tequila bottles and shot glasses.

The amount of sexual harassment and out and out physical assault I used to experience from women was unbelievable. I was routinely groped, pinched, had my groin squeezed, women would try and kiss me without asking etc etc. It was 3-4 times a night, minimum.

When I refused or pushed them away, I was the bad guy and I would get angry responses and abuse. I was even reported to the club owner once, for trying to stop an old woman from sticking her hand down my trousers and her tongue in my mouth. She still proceeded to lick my face and ears anyway... still shudder at the thought.

The girls who did the same job as me never got anything like what I did, maybe a few leery comments at worst. An ex girlfriend of mine used to work in a strip club, never got anything like the shit I used to have to put up with, and remember, I worked in normal clubs, not male strip clubs.

The point is there is no excuse for sexual harassment, regardless of sex. I suggest from bitter experience that women are no better when the tables are turned and they think they can get away with it.

nanbread · 12/03/2021 10:29

Let’s not say a different upbringing or changing your behaviour or the way you dress can change anything. It’s the toxic culture we have that needs changing. It’s so disrespectful to women to suggest that maybe the way you carry yourself or dress is what’s made you one of the lucky ones.

This.

The only upbringing that might make a difference is the upbringing of boys.

PissTestRightNowDaniella · 12/03/2021 10:31

[quote BrilliantBetty]@PissTestRightNowDaniella wow. That is very scary.
Did you find out who he was?[/quote]
Nope. I even attended an ID thing later on in the afternoon as they had apprehended someone who matched the description.
It wasn't a parade like you see on telly it was 'we'll take you to a busy area of town where the person we have apprehended may or may not be. Let us know if you see the person who was by your front door'
For those familiar with Oxford, that place was next to Carfax Tower (always busy)
I did not spot him, but then 'he may or may not be there'.
I did question the logic of such a statement with the plain clothes policewoman I was with, to which she gave no response.
It was farcical really. I wish he was there, I would have gone to the ends of the earth to see him in court.

WhateverHappenedToFayWray · 12/03/2021 10:31

Unfortunately, this is something that I have experienced a lot. I'm 33 now and it still happens just as much as it did when I was a teenager.