Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

[Twintub]

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

I have experienced it aplenty - as has every woman I have spoken to about it. It's an epidemic.

I've had nothing but (a very few) distanced catcalls from workers in my late teens and a couple of stupid boys pratting about pretending to ask me out when we were about 14.

...And I spend most of my life thinking that I haven't experienced any, so ingrained is the expectation.

The first time I remember was in [Y8] when the annoying git with a brain and nice parents addressed one of the other girls in the class - by her surname, which seems to make it worse - "you're rather developed for an eleven-year-old".

Nobody said anything. Now, of course, I wish I'd made a cutting remark about age being no guarantee of maturity (he was one of the oldest in the year) but at the time he was just able to do this with no consequence.

I've had my knickers pulled down in nightclubs and men putting their faces in my boobs and grabbing them when I walked past. Some asked for my photo which I didn't usually mind but I didn't always want to do that and it should be my choice. Random men following me and asking for my number on the street. If I said no or told them not to touch me, I got told I'm a stuck up frigid bitch. While out with a friend a few years ago, a man said to my friend, " you're a dog compared to your mate". It's like you're just expected to take anything they say. If they find you attractive, you must just take their derogatory comments. If they find you unattractive, you take their nasty insults. And although not all men act in this way, all women have been subjected to this type of behaviour in one way or another.

Honestly I'm amazed some people are saying they have never been harassed! I said this on another thread but I am 59 and I reckon every single time I run I am verbally harassed! It's absolutely bonkers. Cheer up love nice arse invest in a sports bra wet t shirt blah blah blah. These are not terrible people, but what are they thinking? I run in daylight along a fairly busy seafront. Are some people just not recognising harassment?

God crystal that was part of my first post by my Boss ha is it the same knob end

@HaNNaHC92

I'm 28 and have not experienced male harassment or even come close to. There's obviously a lot of women out there who have been, but I think the numbers are exaggerated and are still small compared to those who have not been.

The fact that it is almost now normal to be harassed in the street by men means that enough women have experience it that it has now become so ingrained in our society. All my women friends have been harassed including me and not just once but is there anything done about it? NONE. It's almost as if we are just to accept it.

@Lemonandlime123

I have been thinking about this over the past few days and aside from the catcalling, groping in clubs etc. I couldn't think of any other examples and then I remembered that as a teenager I was flashed at twice.

It scared me that I didn't really remember it, as though it wasn't that bad, normal almost but when I think about it now I think how awful!!

And this is exactly what I mean, it's almost we are wired to think that these behaviour by men are not bad and normal. That catcalling is normal, that groping is alright. That is NOT that bad.

I think the answer is most definitely no, OP! No YANBU and no, there is no woman who has not been in receipt of unwanted male attention, harassment, groping, assault etc.

Until there is something in the water supply to suppress testosterone (now, there's an idea worth pursuing!) men will continue to harass women and view them through a sexual lens.

I consider myself to have lead a lucky and charmed life, free from the most serious harms and grief that many face. Still I have:

• Had a lorry driver pull up a massive lorry in a way that blocked my walk home from school and yell out of his cab that he "wanted to see my dirty little p..." (I was 13 years old)
• had the married man that lived acrioss the street hover for me every day as I came home and repeatedly ask if I wanted to come into his house for a drink or smoke (15 years old)
• was grabbed by the throat of a man I was talking to in a pub because I said that I didn't want to go outside 'for a walk' with him; he pulled my face up to his and called me a "filthy fucking cock tease"
• had a man walk up to me in a club, grab both my breasts with his hands and slur how it was "lovely to meet all three of me" whilse his mates laughed
• had a man rub themselves up against me in the tube
• been flashed at in the park while walking the dog
• was followed home by a drunk man trying to talk to me; when I asked him to leave me alone he said "what's your problem? Don't you think if I'd wanted to drag you into the bushes I've have done it by now?"
• was followed while out jogging early morning, by a man in jeans running behind me; everytime I changed direction he did. This lasted several changes of direction and about 5-10mins until I swung round and asked "what the fuck what he doing?" - "I just thought you'd want ome company" was his reply.
• was repeatedly asked by a senior manager at work if I wanted to go out for dinner then when I said I would prefer it it we just kept things professional he replied "don't fucking flatter yourself"

And probably more I am now forgetting - because, tbh, they all merge into one massive headache.

I am not special or particularly unlucky. This has all happened to me and mostly I've led an easy life, compared to many.

Bloody hell it makes me mad to type all that out :(

Yes I have, many many times. Verbal and physical. Even men I didn’t think of as a threat. I was once locked in a taxi by the driver. I’ve been propositioned, sworn at, groped and sexually assaulted, the assault was when i was 15 and in school uniform.
Men need to stop seeing women as an outlet for their anger. Really they need to stop.

Someone up thread mentions the "don't be frigid" line.

That was used on me a couple of times! Before I was 16. By older 'boys'.

@80sMum so you're saying it's just natural for men to treat women badly and treat them as objects and scare them etc? It's just because of their hormones? That is such bullshit!

God. I don't tolerate any bullshit from men - I have high standards thank you very much. I do notice inappropriate looks and comments and I shut them down. Very quickly.
I've been assaulted, stalked, followed (I don't know how long that particular man was following me until I realised, and it wasn't reported to the police, so I won't put it in the stalked category...), twice I had men try in shared accommodation try and break into my room presumably to rape me (as it wasn't consensual, obviously!), groped, and many, many lewd comments.
I don't even go out that often. In one club many years ago I remember smacking a man in the face because he wouldn't stop trying to touch and kiss me! I don't mean for a few minutes, either - it was over half an hour of pestering which is a bloody long time for someone small to keep fending off someone 6foot +! He got a short sharp shock and said, "You didn't have to punch me!" WELL YOU WOULDN'T FUCKING STOP WOULD YOU!!
I had self defence classes after I was assaulted, so I could protect myself - and sadly I have had to use it a few times. Men unfortunately see very small women as easy targets.
All of my friends have experienced some form of harassment or assault. All of them.

I can’t recall anything specific - but I spent a lot of my late teens/early 20’s off my face so I suspect there were incidents that I just can’t remember.

I have had several occasions feeling uncomfortable around men or unsafe out walking though. But I can’t remember any inappropriate touching, harassment etc. I have never been assaulted.

That’s not to say there wasn’t any more “minor” things, but what there was hasn’t been remembered. I expect I probably was groped etc in clubs, I just genuinely can’t recall any.

@DarcyJack

Honestly I'm amazed some people are saying they have never been harassed! I said this on another thread but I am 59 and I reckon every single time I run I am verbally harassed! It's absolutely bonkers. Cheer up love nice arse invest in a sports bra wet t shirt blah blah blah. These are not terrible people, but what are they thinking? I run in daylight along a fairly busy seafront. Are some people just not recognising harassment?

Yeah I think it's a blindness or lack of awareness of what harassment actually is. It might be water off a duck's back to one person, but that doesn't mean it's OK! It's kind of like how some people are naive to signs of attraction - I have a friend who doesn't recognise a come-on at all, just doesn't see it. Thankfully I think she's a lot better at recognising creepy men!

"
However, what I think made a massive difference to me was a wonderful father. He had two daughters and instead of regretting the lack of sons, treated us exactly like sons, we were taught to aim high and believe we could do anything at all. I think that entirely changed my demeanour at work and elsewhere, in how I expected to be treated and thereby influenced the way others treated me too

Yes, me too. I agree with you, pp - I think the way we expect to be treated does influence the way men treat us. I've gone through life expecting men to treat me well, and for the most part this is what's happened."

You two women are part of the problem. I expect to be treated well, my father brought me up that way. But unfortunately for me the random stranger who had a wank looking at me walking through a busy park wearing jeans and coats in the middle of the day didn't stop to ask me what my family relationships were like. If you are saying something in the way women act invited this - you are giving an excuse for men to abuse those who are lucky enough to have slipped through the net so far.

[quote Sweet666]@80sMum so you're saying it's just natural for men to treat women badly and treat them as objects and scare them etc? It's just because of their hormones? That is such bullshit![/quote]
@sweet666, I suppose I am, sort of. But maybe not in the way that you've interpreted it. I don't think I expressed it very well.

Men can accomplish and be successful so much more because they don’t have other men distracting them about their body.

@DarcyJack

Honestly I'm amazed some people are saying they have never been harassed! I said this on another thread but I am 59 and I reckon every single time I run I am verbally harassed! It's absolutely bonkers. Cheer up love nice arse invest in a sports bra wet t shirt blah blah blah. These are not terrible people, but what are they thinking? I run in daylight along a fairly busy seafront. Are some people just not recognising harassment?

That’s awful. But no, I don’t experience that. Perhaps it is because of where I live? I’m in the arse end of nowhere so rarely see a soul out walking, just a few farmers and dog walkers and I’ve never been harassed by someone in a combine harvester or the like. Perhaps it would happen in a city or large town though. I feel very safe here. I work (when not in pandemic) in a city but I am normally on campus and haven’t experienced it there either. But it’s not your typical environment I guess.

@BuggerBognor

there is no woman who has not been in receipt of unwanted male attention, harassment, groping, assault etc.

Apart from all of those who have posted on this thread... 🙄

Really? Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread. I'm amazed but absolutely thrilled that there are some women out there who haven't yet experienced this. Unfortunately, I have to say "yet", as I doubt that situation will continue throughout their lives. I sincerely hope that it does, of course.

I wonder if the women who haven't been groped, cat-called, leered at, rubbed, slapped, pinched, patted, grabbed and slobbered on are young women? I'm 63, maybe that makes a difference.

Just remembered the security guard at an accident and emergency dept, I was a 20 year old student accompanying a friend. He offered me drugs, alcohol and tried to convince me to go home with him at the end of the shift... In plain sight of loads of other staff! Mid 90s

[quote BuggerBognor]@80sMum

I’m 45! Nothing of the sort has ever happened to me. This thread is an appalling indictment of male violence and I am shocked by how ubiquitous sexual harassment seems.

It would be nice if people could just stop assuming I must be lying. 🤷🏻‍♀️[/quote]
I’m the same, I’ve read some of the posts on here and because I’ve never been harassed I’m made out to be lying! I genuinely feel sorry for every woman on here that’s had something done to them but I really haven’t and surely that’s a good thing and we should feel lucky there are some women out there that don’t get harassed not made to feel like we are unaware of our surroundings and definitely have been a victim at some point whether we say so or not!

Yeah I think it's a blindness or lack of awareness of what harassment actually is.

No. it means some of us are lucky enough to have lived lives where we haven't experienced it.