Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

[Twintub]

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

I’m late 30’s can’t count the amount of sexual harassment I had in my youth. Flashed at, grabbed, followed etc. Luckily nothing too serious, most of my friends had it worse than me.

I actually don't think I believe women who say they haven't been subject to some kind of sexual harassment or other unwanted sexual attention.

I think they probably have but have dismissed it or minimised it or think it doesn't count because it doesn't upset them.

Can they honestly say they never had their bra strap twanged, or had someone try to look up their skirt, or pass comments on their physical appearance, or pass unwanted comments on their sexual habits (been called a slut, slag, bike, ho, whore, or alternatively been accused of being frigid or a lesbian), never received uninvited comments on their personal appearance (nice pair, don't get many of those to the pound, nice arse etc)? They've never had a date push their luck? They've never had to say no more than once? Never been groped or grabbed, never had a man press up against them?

I hate to disbelieve people but this is so entrenched and can happen anywhere that it seems unlikely that any women have escaped.

I have never experienced any sort of harassment, and have always been so sad to hear the experiences of other women and realise that not being harassed is a lucky escape rather than the norm.

@HaNNaHC92

I'm 28 and have not experienced male harassment or even come close to. There's obviously a lot of women out there who have been, but I think the numbers are exaggerated and are still small compared to those who have not been.

I’m 56 so have known a lot of women in a lot of places. This conversation has come up a lot. In all those women, I’ve never done across anyone who hadn’t. Are you sure your bar for what constitutes harassment isn’t too high? Are you only counting aggressive groping or rape/sexual assault? Even then I know loads of women, a majority, who have experienced these.

@ProcrastinationIsMySuperPower how do you teach your dd to deal with it? My dd is off to university this year, I want to prepare her as best I can.

46 here and I’ve been hassled for about 32 years.

Can they honestly say they never had their bra strap twanged, or had someone try to look up their skirt, or pass comments on their physical appearance, or pass unwanted comments on their sexual habits (been called a slut, slag, bike, ho, whore, or alternatively been accused of being frigid or a lesbian), never received uninvited comments on their personal appearance (nice pair, don't get many of those to the pound, nice arse etc)? They've never had a date push their luck? They've never had to say no more than once? Never been groped or grabbed, never had a man press up against them?

No to all of them. Sorry.
I've led a relatively sheltered existence, and I've been lucky.

In the 80s I was early teens I hated going to the butchers because they'd make cheeky comments and call me darling. I was very shy and would blush. Builders calling out, but that doesn't happen anymore?

That is my only experience of male 'harassment.

I've had worse treatment from men in my own family and partners - they are the ones that have put me off men because they knew me, were supposed to care and still trashed me.

ProcrastinationIsMySuperPower how do you teach your dd to deal with it? My dd is off to university this year, I want to prepare her as best I can.

@bendmeoverbackwards, I have just started a similar thread asking how to talk to my teenage dd about this stuff.

I absolutely don't want to teach her that it's about the "vibes" that she gives off, the clothes that she wears or whether she walks alone at night, but I do want to teach her that she doesn't have to tolerate this shit, that it's never her fault and that she needs to report stuff if it happens. However, I'm just aware of how easy it is for women to normalise this stuff and minimise it when it happens, so I am hoping for some advice on how to overcome that.

@Lexilooo

I actually don't think I believe women who say they haven't been subject to some kind of sexual harassment or other unwanted sexual attention.

I think they probably have but have dismissed it or minimised it or think it doesn't count because it doesn't upset them.

Can they honestly say they never had their bra strap twanged, or had someone try to look up their skirt, or pass comments on their physical appearance, or pass unwanted comments on their sexual habits (been called a slut, slag, bike, ho, whore, or alternatively been accused of being frigid or a lesbian), never received uninvited comments on their personal appearance (nice pair, don't get many of those to the pound, nice arse etc)? They've never had a date push their luck? They've never had to say no more than once? Never been groped or grabbed, never had a man press up against them?

I hate to disbelieve people but this is so entrenched and can happen anywhere that it seems unlikely that any women have escaped.

None of that has ever happened to me.

It seems it’s all #webelieveyou until a woman says something that doesn’t fit your narrative

I haven't, I have a lot of banter with men but nothing that I would consider harassment.

From 8-28 I could have done with a clicker

This would be funny if it wasn’t actually true. I started trying to list harassment incidents. Just harassment and unwanted physical contact, not sexism. Genuinely cannot believe how long the list was. I’m late thirties, averagely attractive. Feels like harassment was the theme of my twenties, sexism and more subtle discrimination in my thirties.

Now, I also travelled a lot by myself in my late teens and twenties and it’s fair to say most people are kind and helpful, and most men are courteous. Interestingly, I was probably more on my guard when travelling yet almost all the harassment incidents took place in the U.K., in situations where I would expect to feel safe - on streets in the middle of the day, at work, in bars with colleagues. I find that interesting but upsetting: we’re probably more at risk going about our daily lives than doing things which you would think ramp up the risk factor, like travelling alone.

And the instances of forced sexual activity and sexual coercion have all come from within relationships.

@AlexaShutUp

ProcrastinationIsMySuperPower how do you teach your dd to deal with it? My dd is off to university this year, I want to prepare her as best I can.

@bendmeoverbackwards, I have just started a similar thread asking how to talk to my teenage dd about this stuff.

I absolutely don't want to teach her that it's about the "vibes" that she gives off, the clothes that she wears or whether she walks alone at night, but I do want to teach her that she doesn't have to tolerate this shit, that it's never her fault and that she needs to report stuff if it happens. However, I'm just aware of how easy it is for women to normalise this stuff and minimise it when it happens, so I am hoping for some advice on how to overcome that.

Where is your thread please @AlexaShutUp ?

@SweetPetrichor

I find your comments extremly offensive!

Any woman/or teenager girl or young girl child can be subjected to sexual abuse at home or in society going about their normal day to day living !

Its really not Acceptable to say that any the female population who have misfortune to experience this did
Were asking for it !

This is how society allows people like Jimmy saville Radio/Tv personality get away with abusing teenage girls, children suffering in hospitals ect.

Also in Catholic institutions there was widespread paedo abuse of children including teenage girls .

There was a interesting Documentary on Netflix about a Catholic Nun was was murdered cause she was going to expose the widespread paedo behaviour of Catholic priests towards boys and teenage girls such as them being subjected to unwanted gynaecological examinations at a Catholic school.
This was in America.

The reason why harassment is normalised and trivilsed to such a weird extant .
Is cause sexual harassment so much being such a common everyday occurance that to be able to cope with this,
this emotional /psychological attack our psyche minds,
Our minds coping mechanism dealing with trauma is to protect itself by down playing this assault of our minds and bodies constantly.

I was in the cinema once with a friend and the man behind tried to grope my bum, so I stood up and yelled “pervert” at him and complained to the staff (I was 15) and he was removed. Similar at a gig: again challenged him and told security guard and he was removed. Got catcalled from a car when walking to collect DD from 1st day at school - gave him the middle finger and told him to swivel - police car came into view (I’d clocked that it was there) and he drove off. Those are the only three instances I can recall so I guess I’m fortunate that in all cases there were other decent people around to scare them off.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

I remember being a young teenager and walking with a friend around where we lived armed with water pistols to squirt the lorry / van drivers who would inevitably call out to us. Because it was so inevitable this would happen even as young teens! (Maybe 14 ish?)

It was around that age I was threatening to write "My eyes are up here ^" on a school shirt because of a bus driver who did the school run.

Oh, and I’m not including unwanted male attention like being chatted up. I have no problem with a bloke trying to chat me up as long as he steps away as soon as I make it clear I’m not interested. I do have a problem with being groped (including attempted groping by a teacher as a teen), being asked if he can “touch them”, being catcalled, forced and coerced into sexual activity I’m not comfortable with, and having my body commented on, including by male healthcare professionals (as in “nice breasts” to a young teen).

It's in feminism chat @bendmeoverbackwards. Not many replies yet, though.

What I mean is mind coping mechanisms way of dealing with almost constant /or everyday unwanted sexual harassment is to Compartmentlizing this.

@Lexilooo

I actually don't think I believe women who say they haven't been subject to some kind of sexual harassment or other unwanted sexual attention.

I think they probably have but have dismissed it or minimised it or think it doesn't count because it doesn't upset them.

Can they honestly say they never had their bra strap twanged, or had someone try to look up their skirt, or pass comments on their physical appearance, or pass unwanted comments on their sexual habits (been called a slut, slag, bike, ho, whore, or alternatively been accused of being frigid or a lesbian), never received uninvited comments on their personal appearance (nice pair, don't get many of those to the pound, nice arse etc)? They've never had a date push their luck? They've never had to say no more than once? Never been groped or grabbed, never had a man press up against them?

I hate to disbelieve people but this is so entrenched and can happen anywhere that it seems unlikely that any women have escaped.

Again, why do you try to dismiss us or make us look like idiots who haven't got a clue?

It's getting to a point it's not the attitude of men I have to fight, it's attitude of people like you!

Maybe I am just lucky, maybe I am repulsive, fuck knows. No, I am not getting upset, either by men or you, but thanks for asking

I can remember bringing one of the bad guys known for playing the field at home (he was super hot...) , saying no when his hands went under my shirt, not going anywhere near my jeans and leaving things there... and I can also tell you that the only reason I said no is because I had my periods, and he never knew that! And he stayed a couple of hours, then he left.

And I have a truckload of these example.

So you don't believe me? I am either lying or an idiot? WTF is wrong with you?

Are you worried your own experience is being minimised because of mine? Is that what it is?

or pass unwanted comments on their sexual habits (been called a slut, slag, bike, ho, whore, actually, I did. From FEMALES!!!

@Avaganda

I'm 30 and have never experienced harassment from men. The only man who has ever really spoken to me has been DH! I'm the sort of person who blends into the background and is never noticed, which maybe is a good thing reading this thread.

What's that mean? The only man that's really ever spoke to you? That's startling unless you live in some sort of cult where women are kept quiet and at home. Surely you speak to men daily in your life?

Even women who say “it’s never happened to me, but I agree it’s appalling and something needs to be done” are deluded, lying and/or mistaken.

what, you think I was too drunk to remember or something?

Are you wishing for EVERY woman to have the same experience, for some very twisted reason?

Im 41 and I haven't ever been sexually harassed.

It's a bit difficult to admit that as a woman. Either ( usually when you're younger) you are thought to somehow be not attractive enough to warrant men's attention , or as you get older it seems if you aren't in solidarity you are minimising the experience of other women. As the comments above show if you don't agree that this is something all women face, you are minimising or haven't recognised it.
I've no doubt it's endemic from what others say, but it's not something that has affected me. I'm also not afraid to walk or run alone at night......not sure if that is more reflective of where I live than anything else. And I'm definitely a woman

I left secondary school in the year 2000

By that day, I'd been sexually assaulted by two adult family friends and so many older boys and young men (3-8 years older), sexually harassed by a teacher, groped by countless drunken 35 years old and over wankers in my weekend job in a pub restaurant, followed home by some of them, stalked by a weird man in his 40s who was obsessed with me and repeatedly sent silky underwear in the post by someone who was never identified- at age 13!