Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

[Twintub]

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

I believe that some women genuinely haven't experienced this, and I'm happy to hear that. I guess it is just hard for some of us to get our heads around the idea that some women have escaped this stuff because it is so endemic.

I do believe that some women minimise what happens to them, though. If you'd have asked me 20 years ago whether I had ever been sexually assaulted, I'd have said no. I would have been wrong. For years, I minimised things that happened to me because they didn't seem "serious enough" to be described in those terms. I now realise that sexual assault is exactly what they were.

Had this all my life, cat calls, gropes, drunks on trains. With the likes of Benny Hill and 70’s sexist comedies it was almost normal accepted behaviour. I worked in a male dominated work place and comments and behaviour was regarded as banter as if it should be a compliment.
I’m now 55 and would now challenge any of this in my bolshy manner but I’m struggling to recall anything that’s happened in the last few years. I would however stick up for anyone I come across who I think is having problems.
One incident I wish to mention was when at 42 (and considered myself able to stand up for myself), I was in the labour ward having had an epidural and was sitting up on the bed with my legs straight in front of me. I was paralysed from the waist down. The consultant came in and in front of a room full of people pressed against the bed whilst he spoke to me. His penis was pressed against my feet. I could see it, feel the pressure of it on my feet but couldn’t move my legs away. It lasted a few minutes as he was talking about the CSection he was arranging. I was so vulnerable, I said nothing. This man was about to operate on me! I’ve never told DH, he was there, but wouldn’t have noticed and would probably think I was imagining it. I wasn’t.

[quote BuggerBognor]**@DebbieGetsTheJobDone* you’ve misunderstood, we’re agreeing. I was criticizing the people on this thread who say those of us who’ve not* been harassed are seen as somehow mistaken or wrong or lying.

Whilst (rightly) frothing over those who apply the same assumption of untruth to those who have been harassed.

It’s a shocking double standard being perpetuated by women in this thread.[/quote]
oh, apologies, I totally misunderstood that

I am 60 and until I was 35 worked in a male dominated environment. Never harassed. Never recall being harassed outside work or later either.

In my early 20s, I was flashed at on a bus (told him to put it away) and once on the tube someone put their hand up my skirt and was gone and the door closed instantaneously - didn't see who did it.

I used to get the occasional wolf whistle and regarded it as a compliment rather than harassment - a cheery wave resulted in a cheery wave if they were chaps I saw regularly. Never bothered me and never found it derogatory.

Mostly I don't think anyone would have dared.

Never travelled alone at night after dark - one didn't back then.

I am sorry if people have felt harassed by the butcher calling them darling. That doesn't bother me.

But it must be incredibly rare to have a woman assault you so why are you even pointing this out.

Sadly no. I have experienced harassment from men most of my life and shockingly I can remember being as young as 8. Some of the men were well known to me too; a teacher, my boss, my best friend’s father. After all these incidents I felt embarrassment and shame and spent hours trying to analyse what I had done to instigate the behaviour. It was just accepted as part of being female and it still is.

I've never met one. I have met women who have minimised wolf whistles or a pat on the bum though. So maybe they are the ones who say it's never happened to them? It has, but they don't think it has? Either that or they must be extremely lucky.

Since the age of 13, in work and in public, in taxis, buses and trains. Walking. Jogging. Every evening I ask a friend if they’ve got home safe (pre-COVID!). I know several friends who’ve been raped (including a kidnapping), sexually assaulted and a lot more been flashed at including from young ages. I have experienced DV and known friends also experience the same as children and adults.

I do think it’s the minority of men doing this. But it’s the most of us tolerating it (I do not mean victims). And the police and justice system shows little/ no repercussions to violence against women when you look at stats for charging and then prosecution.

It is a given in this society.

@frogswimming

I've never met one. I have met women who have minimised wolf whistles or a pat on the bum though. So maybe they are the ones who say it's never happened to them? It has, but they don't think it has? Either that or they must be extremely lucky.

Again, nope, nothing like that.

#webelieveyou goes both ways.

School also, I should add.

“”Men who are offended and says it's not all men and men who say that they are unaware are bullshitting - they pick their daughter up because they know it's not safe””

Exactly this. You might have not been sexually assaulted but we, including, men pick our daughters up from pubs or guides. Boyfriends walk us home from pubs, when running I let my partner know where I’m going.

If it’s so safe out there why do we including men not let our daughters walk home in the dark?

I now tell my 16 year old son to walk his girlfriend from my car to her front door when stopping her back home. Why do I do this? Because of some men. That’s why.

I’m fat after having my DD’s and I haven’t had a sexual comment from anyone but my DH in 3 years.
It’s weirdly liberating.

1st one I remember I was 10 and I didn’t know what it meant at the time (it was revolting) but my oldest sister punched him in the mouth.

it's not like I live in a fairytale land either, I have done years of martial arts, I have done enough self defence to know that the best thing to do would be run away as fast as I possibly could!, I am not completely irresponsible or dismissing all risks and other women's fears.

But isn't it a good thing that it's perfectly possible to have normal encounters with male doctors, dentists, rescuers, teachers, bosses, colleagues, people in bars, and the reason why I genuinely don't see males as a threat?

You wouldn't leave any valuable or leave the door unlocked on your car, you are mindful and aware of what can happen, but you don't stop leaving your car on a public parking because it might get stolen?

We are not being simple because we behave in a way you don't agree, we are not minimising or hiding anything either.

I thought hard about this over the past couple of days due to the posts shared on SM.

I initially thought I had only a couple of events that stood out, but soon realised there were many many more. But I’d been brought up in an age where the woman was mostly to blame for putting herself in unsafe situations!!

I’m 42 and it was pretty much the norm in the late 90’s to leave a club (2am) and on the walk home have multiple cars stop (mostly with blacked out windows) and a man get out (with at least 2-3 other men in the car) to try and offer you a lift. We would then run through back streets dodging the main roads and the roaming cars, it was scary but happened every weekend!

Back packing alone in Oz I had multiple times when I ‘put myself’ in danger. I think back and shudder and actually wonder how nothing happened to me!

I’ve always blamed myself for not following the safety guidelines drilled into young females around that time! I’m now angry but hopeful men’s attitudes will change!!

I cannot believe the posters on here saying that they haven't experienced sexual harrassment (I do believe this part) because they don't provoke it, or don't give off certain vibes.

What vibe was I giving off when I sat in the cinema with a friend? Obviously I must have done something wrong for a nasty fucker to sit next to me and start masturbating.

Or when I was getting on a train and a man grabbed my crotch, perhaps I had some kind of come-hither, wishy washy look? (I punched him by the way, I'm no shrinking violet).

Or walking down a main road to the local supermarket, guess my very existence was provoking to the total stranger who asked me, "Wanna fuck?" and became even more abusive when I ignored him.

You victim-blamers can just fuck off with your provocation and vibes.

I don't think I've ever experienced any sexual harassment from men. I'm mid 30s, but also a bit of a recluse and tend to come with large, alarming looking dogs and livestock in tow. However, I don't dispute that it's depressingly common and my experience is unusual.

@Coffeeandcocopops

“”Men who are offended and says it's not all men and men who say that they are unaware are bullshitting - they pick their daughter up because they know it's not safe””

Exactly this. You might have not been sexually assaulted but we, including, men pick our daughters up from pubs or guides. Boyfriends walk us home from pubs, when running I let my partner know where I’m going.

If it’s so safe out there why do we including men not let our daughters walk home in the dark?

well, I am a woman but I pick my boy just as much as I pick my girls! I don't find it any safer for my sons than for my daughters. The threat might be different, but as mother, there's still a threat..

I don't see many parents behaving differently with teen boys than teen girls.

It's not a positive to know we have to.

I am 60 and until I was 35 worked in a male dominated environment. Never harassed. Never recall being harassed outside work or later either.

In my early 20s, I was flashed at on a bus (told him to put it away) and once on the tube someone put their hand up my skirt and was gone and the door closed instantaneously - didn't see who did it.

You don't call this sexual harrassment? Seriously?

I know a lot of women who minimise their experiences, some haven't been harassed but most have.
I had a pervy phone call when I was about six and I still remember it super clearly. I was really confused why he was asking what I was wearing and just embarrassed as I was wearing a nightie with pink elephants on it.
Once a man came up to me when I was 14 and said 'Excuse me, I just wondered how a girl so young has the body of a woman. What are you , 11, 12?' This was in 1999. My mum said it was because I was wearing shorts and a vest (July, boiling hot, middle of day on a crowded row of shops). I asked him to go away and he was like 'oh yes, sorry sorry'. Wtf.
A man has gone to prison for sexually harassing me actually so there's a win.

I’ve been very fortunate to never have been through anything some of you have been through and I feel very sorry that you’ve had to go through it, I hope help was available from medical professionals when you asked and it’s not had any long lasting impact on your life

I’ve been chatted up and flirted with on a few occasions by different men, which I take as a good thing as if my hubby didn’t use his crap chat up techniques on me I would never have met the amazing man I know today.

But I’ve never been assaulted, stalked or made to feel uncomfortable by any man, I’m thinking of you all today that has been through it and Sarah’s family and friends too x

I have to say it's been incredibly rare, especially in the UK. I wouldn't say none, but very infrequent. And I wouldn't say I'm unattractive (not that it should matter, but it does) - I'm 31, slim, not facially challenged in my opinion... abroad I've had more shifty stuff (especially in Egypt and Italy) but in the UK in my whole life I've maybe had someone honk at me a handful of times or yell something out a van window. Not trying to minimise that, but I wouldn't say it's been serious and is a lot better than it used to be I think.

I do sometimes wonder when I have Facebook friends who are the same age, live in the same city, who act like/say they have it all.the.time. whether they're looking super hard for it and I'm not, as it seems an incredibly divergent experience.

Ah - I forgot being groped in nightclubs (again, never seriously on boobs/lady parts, more being grabbed round the waist or having someone dance behind you too close) - but that was much more frequent when I was a student. Always used to stop if I turned around and yelled 'leave me alone' though...