Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

[Twintub]

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

I've been chatted up "sexually harassed" as some of you may put it.
But I've also been out with my girlfriends & seen plenty of woman do the same to men.
This anti men stuff going around feels so unfair and damaging to men, I'd hate to think people think like that about my DS

Internalised misogyny and cognitive dissonance causes women to deny or minimise their own experiences of harassment and bullying by men, or to blame other women and girls for such incidents.
I have experienced harassment, unwanted attention, coercion and sexual violence from boys and men, males known to me as well as strangers, since primary school, ranging from persistent unwanted attention to grooming and aggravated assault and rape.
This is also the lived experience of every woman I have had this conversation with: female relatives, colleagues, neighbours (yes, neighbours!) and friends. Numbers are definitely not exaggerated as a PP suggested.
And the fault and shame is men's in every instance. Male violence against women and girls is a male problem.

[quote TrialOfStyle]**@DebbieGetsTheJobDone* and @BuggerBognor*

I am saying I think posters saying it is rare are being disingenuous. Not people who haven’t experienced it. Look at this thread alone. The vast, vast majority have experienced some level of harassment and yet some posters are suggesting it’s rare and doesn’t really happen like that.

You are both incredibly lucky to not have any unwanted comments or attacks purely in virtue of you being a women. I think you’re experiences are rare - not the other way around.[/quote]
I am not even saying it's rare, I am saying it's not my OWN experience and it's not what anyone I know have said.

I resent being called disingenuous - or worst.

I have travelled in night trains, alone, I have been in train stations, airports alone, in the middle of the night, I have been abroad, in hotels, in bars and restaurants, alone. I have been in night clubs, I have got drunk.
I have been home alone with countless male tradesmen, I have been the only woman in the office, sometimes late at night.

I am not even pretending i wasn't lucky, but I surely am not going to invent sexual harassment for the fun of it!

I strongly dislike the dim accusation of being a troll or goady because of my own experience - which is a bit rich when it's what many women accuse other men to do to them in the first place!

Why do I have to be a liar if I never got a hand on my arse, someone breathing down my neck or someone touching me? Believe me, I would't tolerate that shit and I don't think it's normal.

Groped by a well known comedian. I was a student nurse on a medical ward, I was doing a blood pressure on his mate who he was visiting.
It's the online abuse that creeps me the most these days, I sent screenshots to FB of the unwanted messages but apparently it didn't "violate their community standards".

On Instagram a pm from a guy holding a massive fish.... How alluring...I ignored him became aggressive and threatening very quickly.

And with all my incidents , i didn't report and at a young age felt it was normal or my fault for waking home alone or being drunk.

My incidents :

Myself and a friend on holiday aged 19 in Spain walking home tipsy after a night out. A man walked up to us and flashed at us. Because we were drunk and shocked our reaction was to laugh and he ran away.

When I was 17 I had a School Ball and I was very dressed up in a long golden dress which showed a bit of cleavage but not much. I didn't really have a big chest then. I was walking home which was a 5 minute walk. A man started following me and talking to me. It was obvious I didn't want to engage but he kept walking with me. As soon as I got to near my house he lunged at me, trying to kiss me, and pulled my dress down to grope my breasts. I tried to push him but was scared to enrage him. In the end I pointed to one of the houses and said my dad (he wasn't even home) would come out and he ran away.

My bum pinched in many a night club.

Followed by a man in a park when I was walking home drunk (I own this one as I was angry at myself for putting myself in that position). Just a young silly girl at the time taking stupid risks. He started talking to me and put his arm around my neck in a chokehold. But then he stopped and ran off so I felt it was a bit bizarre.

I was 14 and in broad daylight sat in a park bench (busy park) eating crisps. I looked about 12 and in no way 'sexy' wolfing dish crisps, dressed in checked shirt and doctor marten boots. An old man came and sat next to me even though there were many benches. He sidled up to me, and basically said he would 'give me £50 if I would do him' or something along those lines. Again being scared I simply said 'I have to go now but I'll come back later' just to get rid of him. I walked off and he followed me for a bit before I dived into a shop.

I have more but I always look at my experiences as nothing really, and just 'part of being a girl' which is wrong.

It is about power though, and as soon as women have it, they act in the same way men do
I agree that it is about power and women can be corrupted by power too. But do they behave in the same way as men do? If we look at single sex environments such as prisons what conclusions could we draw?

I was sat next to a very short angry boy in maths class at school who openly had a crush on me. He would attack me when people weren’t looking, shove my head under the desk, stab me with pens, touch me inappropriately, etc, I’d complain to the teacher and they would tell me to stop making such a fuss. He even pulled me skirt up one time when he was walking behind me up the stairs.
He’s a police officer now.

A metropolitan police officer.

@dewisant2020

I've been chatted up "sexually harassed" as some of you may put it. But I've also been out with my girlfriends & seen plenty of woman do the same to men. This anti men stuff going around feels so unfair and damaging to men, I'd hate to think people think like that about my DS

Oh yes, we're all just being so nasty about the poor menz.

Hopefully, you'll have brought your DS up to understand about consent and to respect women's bodily autonomy.

To truly capture (report) all the flashing, cat-calling, intimidation, grooming, groping, stalking, raping and domestic violence experienced by every girl to woman in the UK over her lifetime you would need to assign each girl - from a terrifyingly young age - with a special phone number, therapist, psychologist, GP, pharmacist and police officer, refuge place and barrister.

Between the ages of 8-28 I could have done with a clicker to record each incident. Done big, some tiny bit they combine to form a very specific FEAR. I could write you a book.

Ideally some of these professionals wouldn’t add insult to injury by also patronising and not believing you...

We need a revolution in the way the CPS, the media, the Police, social media, schools deal with male violence.

As for Sarah Everard’s killer being a Met Police Officer. I have no words...

Without a revolution our daughters will continue to suffer everything we have suffered and never be believed. And we as older women have to stand by and feel relief that we aren’t younger... As women have done for millennia.

Rest in Peace Sarah Everard.

Does being sent unsolicited dick pics on dating apps count as harassment?

If not then i haven't ever been subject to harassment and I am 32. I went to an all girls school and took a female dominated subject at uni and never liked clubbing so that probably helped

@ThighsofSteel

I haven't, it's certainly not something that has caused me any anguish in my life, despite a long career in a very male domintated industry.

I've experience sexism e.g. the HR manager who wrote me off when I got engaged (in 1989) but not harassment. Even the sexism hasn't been extreme, on the whole I think I've had equal opportunity, with a few idiots to overcome.

It does make me wonder though if I've just missed it. Perhaps I didn't notice because it was so normal?

However, what I think made a massive difference to me was a wonderful father. He had two daughters and instead of regretting the lack of sons, treated us exactly like sons, we were taught to aim high and believe we could do anything at all. I think that entirely changed my demeanour at work and elsewhere, in how I expected to be treated and thereby influenced the way others treated me too.

Dad also supported mum being a FT working mother in the 1970s, so I had the role model too. He was a about the only one who did, her female relatives thought she was wicked and told her so often.

It's sad to have to admit it, but men are the solution to this problem.

My father was the same, still didn’t stop my getting harassed though did it?

These are my experiences. I'm 33

13 years old, walking home from an after school club with a friend. Man jumps out with his trousers down fully exposing himself to us. We ran and told no one. I felt like I’d done something wrong.

16 years old. On a train home from a friends house after school. It was a quiet carriage and a man came and sat directly opposite to face me, opened his trouser button, put his hands down his trousers and started masturbating. I bolted and found a train guard a few carriages down. The guard laughed and did nothing. I felt so ashamed.

20 years old. A car pulled up with 3 men in. The passenger wound down the window, lifted his hips and flashed me, fully exposing himself while the whole car roared with laughter. I called the police as I had the vehicle registration. A male officer came to my flat and rolled his eyes and smirked as I gave my statement. Nothing ever happened as they put it down to ‘just lads messing about’.

I have experienced sexual harassment at work too. Unwanted advances by powerful and popular Execs, I couldn't say anything for fear of losing my job.

It’s fucking appalling we have all experienced these things and I feel more and more angry about it as time goes on. I wish I could delete them from my memory. I wake up at night and think about the train guy and think, did he have kids? We’re they safe? How many other girls did he do this to? Did he ever take it further? If only I had been more brave and called the police he could have been put on the sex offenders register at least.

Was thinking of this last night. I think of 5 times ranging from someone chatting me up after i made it clear i wasnt interested to rape. Every women i know has been sexually assaulted ranging from touching to rape.

Bells, unsolicited dick pics count, and I am so sorry you have had to deal with shit like that.

I'm 49, reading some of these stories makes me think I got off lightly, however her are mine -

I was flashed at in the CHILDREN'S section of a public library when I was about 10.

I was groped by my piano teacher around age 12

I worked in an underwear shop in my early 20s and was asked by male customers if I would model things or what I looked like in them.

The Sarah Everard case is utterly heartbreaking. I'm not sure why this case in particular has triggered so much media attention compared to many other attacks and murders committed on women. They have been talking about the issues on the radio all day yesterday and today too. But it doesn't matter why this particular case has triggered this. The fact that we're talking about it openly and people are starting to understand what women put up with is a good thing. I hope this will start to change things.

I have 3 daughters aged 19, 18 and 14. I have always brought them up to be confident and live their lives how they wish. When I was growing up, I was fairly confident travelling alone, I was always very independent. Perhaps I was naive, who knows. I am angry for my daughters that this is the sort of world they have to live in. I'm angry that they won't feel safe walking the streets.

This needs education and fast.

To those saying women have been guilty of groping, leering, assaults that's obviously something that does happen and is not acceptable either. This usually seems to be a pack of drunken women in a nightclub type atmosphere. Doesn't make it better and these incidents should also be dealt with. I'd say men and women can both behave disgustingly in a nightclub environment.

However I can't remember the last time a man was followed in a park by a woman late at night and murdered.

I’m in my 50s and had a lot of harassment between when I was in my teens and never thought anything of it , I find that fact really shocking now.

@Bells3032

Does being sent unsolicited dick pics on dating apps count as harassment?

If not then i haven't ever been subject to harassment and I am 32. I went to an all girls school and took a female dominated subject at uni and never liked clubbing so that probably helped

Yeah. That counts.

I'm glad that some of my worst experiences online were back on AOL chat when you couldn't send images. I'm glad I never had to see a dick pic from the man who told me he was old enough to be my dad and tried to suggest he actually was my dad and that it was a turn on to him. (My dad was sat on the sofa with no access to the net at the time, before anyone wonders) I was 15 or 16 at the time.

Very much so! My main recollection is of being harassed when doing work experience as a student.

But harassing behaviour from males at a low level is very much a fact of life - on public transport, walking down the street etc

I dunno, maybe the Queen hasn’t? Could be the one exception, but she’s in very unusual circumstances!

And yeah women can be cunts....we all can.
But seeing as violence and sexual assault is hugely and overwhelmingly perpetrated by men, including against other men I think we can all say in agreement that men need to sort their shit out.

And rather than be sad my DS might be thought as a potential rapist, I am teaching him to not be a fucking rapist, and if women are wary of him, that is their right to be, to keep themselves safe.

Rather than be sad for him that he might not be trusted, I am sad for the 97 fucking percent of women who have been harressed and assaulted.
I want my son to grow up in a world where women aren't so worried by men that they have to avoid that, and we do that by teaching our sons as best we can, and we also accept that the way society treats women, even our nicest son's can end up being influenced to treat women badly.

I am sad that even "nice guys" don't really get it, and that they let comments and behaviour from their mates towards women go for any number of reasons.

Groping at school, boobs grabbed by random drunk bloke just walking passed, followed at speed by a car with 4 men in for 25 miles, followed on foot in broad daylight whilst pushing a pushchair (guy stopped to get something out of his bag I dread to think what) fortunately ran into a neighbour and he disappeared..general abuse...

I'm mid 40's; I was sexually harassed by a teacher at college at 16; touched up in nightclubs countless times, including having a man's hand up my skirt and inside my knickers; had my thigh touched on a bus ("you wouldn't have worn that skirt if you didn't want the attention!") at 19; cat called etc many, many times; kissed and groped by my boss at 20, and demoted when I rejected his advances.... God, I could go on but it's just too depressing.

I'm now the mother of a teenage girl at college, who has already been on the receiving end of unwanted attention, so I am not sure it's got all that much better. Except I've brought her up to deal with it oh so much better than I did.

I remember being a young teenager and walking with a friend around where we lived armed with water pistols to squirt the lorry / van drivers who would inevitably call out to us. Because it was so inevitable this would happen even as young teens! (Maybe 14 ish?)