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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Is there any woman who hasn’t experienced male harrassment

999 replies

Twintub · 12/03/2021 08:31

I was thinking about this and was initially thinking things have massively improved since I was young in the 80’s. I experienced flashers, a teacher tried to kiss me in high school he was married baby on the way, a pub boss whose girlfriend worked with him tried to kiss and grope me and another middle aged boss in my late 20s that pulled my trousers down at a night away for work. There were many more. Now I’m in my 40s I thought I don’t get bothered much but then I remembered 2 other pre covid instances. One late night train a drunk guy tried to chat to friend she politely said she wasn't interested and he got Aggressive calling her a speccy lesbian. Another instance my friend and I in a pub and a middle aged drunk man obviously on a business trip chatted up my friend she wasn’t interested I very nicely said we are just having a chat he turned on me and called me an ugly bitch He wasn’t talk h to me and I wasn’t a patch on her etc etc his work mates dragged him away.

What amazes me is men behave like this bit raise daughters who in turn get treated like this.

OP posts:

AlexaShutUp · 12/03/2021 11:31

Not impressed with the victim blaming on this thread....

TrialOfStyle · 12/03/2021 11:32

@DebbieGetsTheJobDone And how exactly have you reframed me saying that I find it hard to believe women haven’t been harassed, perhaps in a way they don’t recognise as harassment as victim blaming you for being attacked by women. What is the link there?

Pyewackect · 12/03/2021 11:32

Not in this country, even as a teen , but abroad, most definitely. Apart from my time in the US.

worried3012 · 12/03/2021 11:33

@TheImber

I'm a man.

Back in the day I used to go to the gym a lot, had a good body, was considered good looking.

I used to make money at uni selling shots on nights out. Youve seen that sort of thing before im sure, I used to walk around nightclubs, no top on, just jeans and a belt carrying tequila bottles and shot glasses.

The amount of sexual harassment and out and out physical assault I used to experience from women was unbelievable. I was routinely groped, pinched, had my groin squeezed, women would try and kiss me without asking etc etc. It was 3-4 times a night, minimum.

When I refused or pushed them away, I was the bad guy and I would get angry responses and abuse. I was even reported to the club owner once, for trying to stop an old woman from sticking her hand down my trousers and her tongue in my mouth. She still proceeded to lick my face and ears anyway... still shudder at the thought.

The girls who did the same job as me never got anything like what I did, maybe a few leery comments at worst. An ex girlfriend of mine used to work in a strip club, never got anything like the shit I used to have to put up with, and remember, I worked in normal clubs, not male strip clubs.

The point is there is no excuse for sexual harassment, regardless of sex. I suggest from bitter experience that women are no better when the tables are turned and they think they can get away with it.

That's not acceptable and should be and dealt with extremely seriously.

I wouldn't minimise that at all and wouldn't say one attack is worse than another. But there are differences and that should be pointed out.

Rightly or wrongly the fact that your employers expect you to be topless in a nightclub means they have to an extent sexualised you and made you an object to be leered at so people buy the shots. They are wrong for doing that. I can imagine what the scenes would equally be like if the roles are reversed, women walking round top less selling or half naked selling shots in a nightclub. It would as bad if not worse. So I blame the employers for fuelling that and for the people who grope/leer. Completely unacceptable and people who do this should be reported.

But there is a massive difference to the above scenario to a situation where a woman is simply walking home and may get raped, attacked, or worse. Usually but in a public place and more likely to be overpowered.

Let me make clear - assault of any kind is wrong and disgusting. I'm just saying there are differences in both scenarios.

In your example of what happened to you, those situations can be stopped by the victim reporting the attacks, offenders dealt with, and the nightclubs/bars selling shots behind the bar and not by semi naked people. A woman walking home can't be stopped.

nanbread · 12/03/2021 11:33

@SchrodingersImmigrant oh great please tell us all how we can get "the vibe" so men stop raping / assaulting / harassing women.

Blueberries0112 · 12/03/2021 11:34

I doubt it.

Are there men to don’t do these things?

nancy75 · 12/03/2021 11:34

@HaNNaHC92

I'm 28 and have not experienced male harassment or even come close to. There's obviously a lot of women out there who have been, but I think the numbers are exaggerated and are still small compared to those who have not been.

You couldn't be more wrong about numbers being exaggerated.

How many women report it when a man gropes their bum in a pub, or when a group of drunk men make lewd suggestions on the night bus home, or when they are shouted out from a passing car, or when that man on the tube accidentally rubs up against them?

I would say it's massively under reported

acatcalledjohn · 12/03/2021 11:34

He had two daughters and instead of regretting the lack of sons, treated us exactly like sons, we were taught to aim high and believe we could do anything at all.

Treating like sons?

So only sons get taught to aim high and believe they can do anything?

You were given the opportunity to aim high and still refer to it as being treated 'like sons'?

I despair.

MaudTheInvincible · 12/03/2021 11:34

It seems to start once a girl starts to develop breasts. At least, that's when it started for me and all the girls I knew back then, and any I've spoken to about this kind of thing since. The yelling from cars, pushing up a bit too close on tubes. The propositions. All the little things to let girls know that they are unsafe and unable to control what happens to their bodies. Keeping us permanently on the back foot, doing our risk assessments and eyeing our exits.

Sue81 · 12/03/2021 11:35

I think finding a woman who hasn't been harrassed at least occasionally is rare. Incidents I can recall:

being catcalled from cars aged 11/12 wearing school uniform
flashed at least twice
groped under the desk by a male classmate aged 12
being nicknamed "jugs" by boys at school who would follow me shouting this at me
followed when walking alone at night
numerous incidents of bum touching etc in clubs when younger
being sat next to on public transport and talked at/not left alone even when making it very clear I wasn't interested in conversation or whatever

And I know many people who have experienced much worse than these.

MrsTulipTattsyrup · 12/03/2021 11:35

The discussion about having a vibe which either does or doesn’t invite sexual harassment is in danger of feeding the idea that there is something, anything, that women should be doing to avoid harassment.

This is dangerous and victim blaming.

Please think about where this leads. Women’s rapists not being prosecuted because their victims had had a few glasses of wine, or their skirts were in someone’s view too short.

Women are not inviting unwanted sexual attention. It is unwanted. It in unacceptable.

If you make any sort of excuse for this behaviour you are part of the problem.

PamDemic · 12/03/2021 11:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

acatcalledjohn · 12/03/2021 11:36

Or perhaps they were so conditioned to it being normal they were desensitised to a point where it wouldn't even occur to them to mention it.

I would put money on my suggestion being correct.

TheImber · 12/03/2021 11:36

Worried

There were plenty of women who did the same job as me, in bikini tops and cut of jeans.

I said in my original post, they got the odd leery comment, that was it. No physical abuse, no groping, nothing.

LakieLady · 12/03/2021 11:37

Groped on public transport in London

Oh god, the tube train frotters! I only commuted to central London for a year, but in that year I don't think a week went by without some pervert rubbing himself against my arse.

I took to stepping back, hard, and hoping that my heel really hurt their feet.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 12/03/2021 11:38

[quote nanbread]@SchrodingersImmigrant oh great please tell us all how we can get "the vibe" so men stop raping / assaulting / harassing women. [/quote]
Oh my god. How the hell do I know.

I asked above, if it isn't "some kind of vibe" then what it is that some women don't get shouted at on streets and groped in public transport. No one actually answered that.

AlexaShutUp · 12/03/2021 11:38

I wonder what sort of vibe I was giving off when I was asleep on a long coach journey. I'm sure it must have been my fault that I woke up to find a man's hand between my legs.

Must work harder on those sleeping vibes....or maybe it was going to sleep in the first place that was my mistake?

TheImber · 12/03/2021 11:38

@acatcalledjohn

Or perhaps they were so conditioned to it being normal they were desensitised to a point where it wouldn't even occur to them to mention it.

I would put money on my suggestion being correct.

Categorically not true. We worked as a team. They were with me most of the time. A few creeps making leery comments, thats literally it.

My ex used to be a stripper, same detail, never had to put up with anything like what I did.

nanbread · 12/03/2021 11:39

If you make any sort of excuse for this behaviour you are part of the problem.

Yep.

The only thing I can think of that's made me more "susceptible" is being in places where there are more people. I lived in a town, now in a city, encounter quite a lot of people with work as I used to travel, and socialised a lot.

If I'd stayed at home in a quiet village I would have met fewer men, ergo would have likely met fewer men who dish out abuse.

AlexaShutUp · 12/03/2021 11:39

I asked above, if it isn't "some kind of vibe" then what it is that some women don't get shouted at on streets and groped in public transport. No one actually answered that.

Luck.

There is no fucking vibe.

ilovepuggies · 12/03/2021 11:40

I have been harassed by men and women but for different reasons.
Men have flashed / masturbated in front of me and said inappropriate things.
I have been physically and verbally abused by women.
There are positives and negatives to all humans.
I really hope a huge change can be made for women to feel more safe. We all need to come together and take responsibility regardless of gender.

LakieLady · 12/03/2021 11:41

@MrsTulipTattsyrup

This is dangerous and victim blaming.

Please think about where this leads. Women’s rapists not being prosecuted because their victims had had a few glasses of wine, or their skirts were in someone’s view too short.

Women are not inviting unwanted sexual attention. It is unwanted. It in unacceptable.

If you make any sort of excuse for this behaviour you are part of the problem.