The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

echo Clymene and katmarie absolutely.

I have DSs and a DD.

My DD watches a lot of true crime programmes, especially ones that detail abduction of girls. When I asked her what was so entertaining about these awful programmes, she said it wasn't entertainment, it's so she can learn what not to do/what steps to take to make sure if it happens to her she won't 'make the same mistakes'. (Because she thinks/hopes she can control it).

She does this because everyday on her way to school she was catcalled, or commented on (cheer up love...) every time she is out with her girlfriends she is approached by leery men.

She was at an all girls school. One time they were all leaving a church service (in uniforms, so traditional kilts etc,) and a fire engine had stopped at the zebra crossing. The firemen (they were all men) were making jokes about 'sexy schoolgirls'. I know because the window was down and I heard them. Just regular 'banter'.

My DD can already feel, in her youth, just like all women before her, this kind of constant drip drip of unwanted, derogatory attention

(and it is derogatory and hateful. It's about how dare she be allowed a space in the world to get on with her life. How dare she be walking to school, breastily, AND in a skirt, flaunting her legs...how dare she be in a group of other girls laughing with each other and having a good time without men?)

....and that's why and how all the strategies listed in the original meme quoted become second nature.

@MumsTheWordFact

Loving this thread and how people are talking as if there are no female murderers or females that commit violence, of course its less prevalent by far, but it does exist so please don't talk as if it doesn't.

I haven't seen that. No one is downplaying murder of any sex by any sex. Posters are rightly angry that the statistics quite obviously shows that we have a huge problem/trend with male violence. That when over 90% of violent crime is consistently carried out by men that saying 'women do it too' and NAMALT completely ignores that this is a trend.

"No, I want to support a campaign to stop violence, but can"t support it at the moment because much of the language being used is offensive."

Aww what a shame. The campaign will suffer greatly from the loss of your "activism".

@MumsTheWordFact

Loving this thread and how people are talking as if there are no female murderers or females that commit violence, of course its less prevalent by far, but it does exist so please don't talk as if it doesn't.

True.

Also crocodiles - they commit violence. Why are we not talking about them?

Or lightening strikes?

Oh yeah, because it's not actually relevant to the discussion of female violence at the hands of men.

1. Male violence is the issue, no matter your sex.
2. Women are more likely to experience serious sexual assault and rape at the hands of a violent men.
3. Men need to be more visibly and vocally supportive of women - they need to keep their peers in check by challenging them and not staying quiet.
4. There is no misandry. Until we are in a post patriarchal society and there is no sex-based oppression, misandry does not exist.

It is 'misandry

So you are trying to argue people away from misandry by pointing out that men kills lots of other men too?

@Givitarest

They are attacked for being alone and vulnerable to attack ... like women. The nature of the attack may be different, but they're still dead at the end of it

But can’t you see that a lone woman is so much more vulnerable to attack because of the difference in size and strength? A man who wants to attack another man is going to have to size him up first, see if he’s likely to be overpowered himself. If he wants to attack a woman, he can just go for it as she’s unlikely to have a hope in hell of fighting him off.

Plan women seen as innocent? I think many women who have tried reporting a rape and the shockingly low number who see their day in court would disagree with you.

Women who have been raped are torn to shreds in court and if there's a way to blame they it will happen

THANK YOU!

People should have the decency to respect the feelings of a mother, who is just as scared for her boys than for her girls!

People should have a basic human respect and not willingly ignore and try to deny all the victims.

How many young boys need to be stabbed, assaulted, beaten up, murdered before someone take them seriously?

Olly Stephens, Jack Barry, Romario Opia and all they others, they matter.

Instead of trying to generate more violent, stand up against ALL violence. And stop pretending a father is not just as concerned as a mother whilst you are at it.

Shame on all the people who think it's just the trendy ashtag of the month

Ah yes what about the men, why can women NEVER talk about issues that affect them without whataboutery.

That tweet you have referenced doesn't say that men don't also face violence from other men, or that some men don't also feel scared and take precautions around walking etc. It is talking about women, and I certainly believe what they are saying to be true, certainly out of the women I know we all feel this way. None of us feel that all men are like this.

Women being killed is the tip of a very large iceberg.
Under that is all the women who e been raped and subject to violent assault- some of these crimes are not even reported. The ones that are are not being prosecuted
Under that you have the groomers and peepers- only just made a crime
Under that the harassers, the catcallers, the space invaders, the followers- none of which is a crime.
All these make women uncomfortable, shamed, humiliated, fearful, and keep us off the streets and out of public places.
What about the men? No shit...they simply do not experience this level of infringement on their rights and being fearful for their safety and well-being all the time just because of their sex.

Gropers not groomers

I think the difference is that women have a reason to fear men in pretty much every context - sexual harassment, leering, all on the spectrum building up to rape and assault - while men don't have the same experience. Also, women are already at a structural disadvantage economically and in terms of social capital. It's not at all a fair comparison you're drawing and seems a deliberate muddying of the waters.

In your drive to be inclusive @Givitarest would you insist we change "Black lives matter" to "all lives matter"?
I bet (and hope) you don't.
You've spectacularly missed the point of that tweet.

You must be on the wind-up OP.

My DD watches a lot of true crime programmes, especially ones that detail abduction of girls. When I asked her what was so entertaining about these awful programmes, she said it wasn't entertainment, it's so she can learn what not to do/what steps to take to make sure if it happens to her she won't 'make the same mistakes'. (Because she thinks/hopes she can control it).

I did and still do this for exactly the same reason. I read a book of interviews with murders nearly 30 years ago now, when asked how they selected their victims one of them said he simply tried door handles until he found one that was unlocked, the doors in my house are always locked, my male friends never do this, I can always knock and walk into their houses.

@DebbieGetsTheJobDone

THANK YOU!

People should have the decency to respect the feelings of a mother, who is just as scared for her boys than for her girls!

People should have a basic human respect and not willingly ignore and try to deny all the victims.

How many young boys need to be stabbed, assaulted, beaten up, murdered before someone take them seriously?

Olly Stephens, Jack Barry, Romario Opia and all they others, they matter.

Instead of trying to generate more violent, stand up against ALL violence. And stop pretending a father is not just as concerned as a mother whilst you are at it.

Shame on all the people who think it's just the trendy ashtag of the month

This thread is discussing violence on women BY MEN.

Why not start another thread where we can discuss violence towards men BY MEN?

And as someone who has experienced sexual assault by A MAN when I was 11, once again when I was 16 and many of the other unwanted attention on this thread I will bloody centre women if I feel like it.

I’ve spoken to many men in my life over the years, and it never crosses their minds not to run on their own in the dark, not to walk home that mile late at night rather than take a taxi, not to take a long walk across isolated moorland on their own. They just can’t grasp what it is to life your life in fear of attack

That. All the men in our running club were taken aback when we were discussing running routes and times, and all women went 'no, can't go there, because it goes past some pubs with drunk men outside...no can't take that route, because it crosses that dodgy area...no, can't run that time, it's dark..'
They all said that they never, ever consider their safety and potential attackers when choosing their routes and training times. Never.

Under that is all the women who e been raped and subject to violent assault- some of these crimes are not even reported.

If my own experience is anything to go by, I suspect most crimes like this are not reported.

Hashtag of the month? Sod off, Story of our Lives for many of us and our daughters.

whilst I am sure it is true that men are more likely to be victims of non-sexual violence (excluding domestic violence) than women (and as a mother of a small son this worries me deeply as he grows), I am still not sure why people are upset that women campaign against violence against women.

Men are surely capable of organising to raise the issue of male on male violence and running campaigns to combat that.

It is surely an example of deep-rooted cultural misogyny that when women speak out against violence against women, they get verbally attacked for not including male victims too. Why are women expected to do everything for everyone? Why isn't it deemed unacceptable for women to focus only on their own concerns?

@PeterPanNeverLands

Have you ever seen a post about male violence victims flooded with women posting "what about women" I haven't.

Every post I see about male on female violence I can guarantee you it's flooded with cries of what about the men.

THIS 👏 ISN'T 👏 ABOUT 👏 THEM

I'd like to see male-curfew. It's not women who are joyriding, out in 'gangs' after 10pm but it is women who would benefit from being able to run, as an example, at that time, once children are fed/in bed and safe.

This isn't about men and it's quite nauseating to see that some women just can't stop thinking about the men in their lives. This is about women and their safety. When men stop killing women and start thinking of how to make the women in their lives safe, we as women will have capacity to consider everybody else also. Very good point made by PP that men are not thinking of us (women) and how our safety can be achieved.

A man who wants to attack another man is going to have to size him up first, see if he’s likely to be overpowered himself. If he wants to attack a woman, he can just go for it as she’s unlikely to have a hope in hell of fighting him off.

Sexism trains us all to think that way, and it makes both sexes assume that all women are easy victims. The one time a man followed me home and tried to push his way in to the foyer of my building, I had no trouble pushing him back out, and was left flabbergasted by his assumption that someone his size had a hope of overcoming someone my size.

We all know Not All Men Are Like That.

Why do you think women speaking about violence from men is accusing all men (your sons, your husband) of being violent?

Why do you think women speaking about violence from men has anything to do with men's experience of violence from men?

Men aren't being demonised. It's just facts.

I await your husband's similarly phrased tweet going viral where he says "Every man has taken a longer route. Every man has held his keys in his hands."

It wouldn't get shared and liked.

Most men don't know about holding your keys in your hand. They don't. They've no idea why you'd do it, other than to be ready to open your front door. But all women do.

Your sons will be just fine. Bring them up to not be a part of the problem, and job's a good un. Teach them that not everything is all about them, while you're at it.

@KatharinaRosalie

I’ve spoken to many men in my life over the years, and it never crosses their minds not to run on their own in the dark, not to walk home that mile late at night rather than take a taxi, not to take a long walk across isolated moorland on their own. They just can’t grasp what it is to life your life in fear of attack

That. All the men in our running club were taken aback when we were discussing running routes and times, and all women went 'no, can't go there, because it goes past some pubs with drunk men outside...no can't take that route, because it crosses that dodgy area...no, can't run that time, it's dark..'
They all said that they never, ever consider their safety and potential attackers when choosing their routes and training times. Never.

That's probably because they know, as runners, that they can outrun the other guy.