The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

It is only the same in that in both cases, the perpetrators are male. That said, most men stand a better chance of defending themselves against an attack by a lone man. Most men are larger, stronger, faster than most women. Most men who are attacked by other men are in a place that lends itself to volatility or high emotion. Most women who are attacked by men are where they are supposed to be, doing what they are supposed to be doing (walking, shopping, etc), or are attacked by a man known to them. Most. You can what-if it to death, but most women are at far greater risk from men than other men are.

Men don’t risk assess their world daily, and then curtail their normal everyday lives and activities. Or worry if they carry out those activities what the consequences might be.

Returning from a late meeting to get on the train, choosing a carriage. Do I get the empty one and worry who gets on further down the line? Or get on the carriage with two men already in there. Are they together? What if one of them gets off and I’m left alone with the other?

I just want to get on the sodding train.

I'm a woman and have never done any of those things.

One day I was walking the dogs in a wood Close to home. A van was parked up. Turned out to be forestry and all fine. I had a genuine fear it was a rapist.
When I said that to DH and his mate they just didn’t get it at all.

I also don’t agree (and it statistically doesn’t add up) that most men are fine and cause no issues. Although we’d all like to think so.

Nearly every woman and girl has experienced actual harm from men, whether physical or sexual harassment. Often these incidents happen multiple times and throughout women’s lives from childhood. Low level (?) sex discrimination and misogynistic bullying is commonplace, from our workplaces and private homes through to being highly visible in our global leaders and politicians. It is endemic and it is excused and glossed over continually.

Extreme and violent pornography and illegal ‘indecent’ images of women and girls are produced, searched for, shared in unimaginably vast quantities. The sheer volume of men accessing this defies the logic of most men being lovely people.

This isn’t about a small number of very very prolific bad men causing a problem. This isn’t a few bad apples. It is extremely large numbers of men, who at some point, at some level cause harm through their actions to women. Most men, I would say, do this at some level and/or do not condemn it in their circle of friends and peers.

Look at the numbers. Calculate the cost to women’s lives.

An alarming number of men go on to actual criminal offending. An unacceptable number of those commit serious offenses. Thats just the tip of the iceberg though.

I won’t apologise for saying this because the numbers and the evidence speak for themselves.

@piedpiper1806

I'm a woman and have never done any of those things.

Well done you. And the relevance of what is what, exactly?

Do you not believe you are one of a very, very tiny minority? Long may your charmed life continue.

@ShotgunShack

I also don’t agree (and it statistically doesn’t add up) that most men are fine and cause no issues. Although we’d all like to think so.

Nearly every woman and girl has experienced actual harm from men, whether physical or sexual harassment. Often these incidents happen multiple times and throughout women’s lives from childhood. Low level (?) sex discrimination and misogynistic bullying is commonplace, from our workplaces and private homes through to being highly visible in our global leaders and politicians. It is endemic and it is excused and glossed over continually.

Extreme and violent pornography and illegal ‘indecent’ images of women and girls are produced, searched for, shared in unimaginably vast quantities. The sheer volume of men accessing this defies the logic of most men being lovely people.

This isn’t about a small number of very very prolific bad men causing a problem. This isn’t a few bad apples. It is extremely large numbers of men, who at some point, at some level cause harm through their actions to women. Most men, I would say, do this at some level and/or do not condemn it in their circle of friends and peers.

Look at the numbers. Calculate the cost to women’s lives.

An alarming number of men go on to actual criminal offending. An unacceptable number of those commit serious offenses. Thats just the tip of the iceberg though.

I won’t apologise for saying this because the numbers and the evidence speak for themselves.

Absolutely agree.

‘Most’ men are not lovely. ‘Most’ men just don’t murder us. ‘Most’ men are the problem.

Are any of you actually married to men? If so, what do you think of the men in your life?

2021ismyyear

Yes I am. What do I think of him?

I think like all men he has grown up in a world where sexist attitudes and misogyny is normal. I try to point this out where I see it. He gets it, but isn’t directly disadvantaged by it so like most men he isn’t living with the consequences.
This needs to be recognized by men, challenged by men, changed by men.

I don’t see it helps to split men into two lots, the ‘Not My Nigel’ lot and ‘Those Bad Ones’.

@2021ismyyear

Are any of you actually married to men? If so, what do you think of the men in your life?

Until we all stop denying that ‘good’ men contribute to the problem through their everyday sexism and micro aggressions, nothing will change.

I am married to a man and have given birth to a man.

I think they have a part to play in addressing violence towards women. What is your point again ?

Teenage boys attacking other teenage boys are a huge problem. I worry about my teenage dgs being attacked just for walking down the street. Some of these lads are like wild feral animals. Violence for the sake of it. Girls aren’t safe when they’re out but boys are at far greater risk.

Why is it that people like the OP still aren't getting it in the 21st century?

fluffy the root cause is males. Look at the problem and name the cause. Men.

@2021ismyyear

Are any of you actually married to men? If so, what do you think of the men in your life?

I think that he has grown up in a patriarchy and has benefited from that. I think he has had conversations with me where he has freely acknowledged that some of the things I have opened his eyes to about how women are treated and what happened to them are things it hasn't occurred to him to think about because as a man, he has never had to. I think that although I know he treats women well and has never been violent, he is not particularly active in challenging inequality and misogyny.

I think anyone who is sitting there thinking that their DH is fine because he's never, as far as they know, committed rape or abducted and killed a woman, is setting the bar pretty low.

What's your point?

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

Why is it that people like the OP still aren't getting it in the 21st century?

A whole host of reasons. The main one being they don't want to.

@ShotgunShack

fluffy the root cause is males. Look at the problem and name the cause. Men.

I totally agree.

Men are at risk so much. As a mother of a 15 year old ds I pray he is safe as he becomes a young adult and man. My brother at 18 was beaten up outside a nightclub one of the very few times he went clubbing. The attacker, a man much older claimed my db had been "looking at him" and that's 'why' he targeted him. I have a very close relative who was attacked in his own street (and at other times) merely because he had long hair. Men too are attacked, like women, just because the perp feels they can and want to do it. Yes, women probably are more vulnerable to sexual crime and men violent crime. We've all heard repeat stories of boys punched outside in the street and killed with that one punch. Also, surely men too are vulnerable to sexual crimes against them? It's not a competition. It's all bad.

I am married to a man and have given birth to a man

That must have hurt

@Peanutbuttercupisyum

Because men aren’t scared to walk alone at night. Because they can defend themselves against another man. Because the power balance is equal. Because they aren’t made to feel vulnerable everyday from comments, and stares. In the past 2 days alone I’ve had 2 separate incidents of random men making unwanted comments as I walked my dog in the daylight. No - they weren’t about to kidnap me but collectively over a lifetime, it creates a feeling of unease that stays with you always. Men do not have this issue, end of

Oh yes, because of course an 18 year old boy can defend himself against a man 10 years older and 3 times bigger than him? A man can defend himself against 2 attackers or more can he? A man can defend himself against another man who punches him without warning /pulls a knife on him just because it's 2men?

@Bbq1

Men are at risk so much. As a mother of a 15 year old ds I pray he is safe as he becomes a young adult and man. My brother at 18 was beaten up outside a nightclub one of the very few times he went clubbing. The attacker, a man much older claimed my db had been "looking at him" and that's 'why' he targeted him. I have a very close relative who was attacked in his own street (and at other times) merely because he had long hair. Men too are attacked, like women, just because the perp feels they can and want to do it. Yes, women probably are more vulnerable to sexual crime and men violent crime. We've all heard repeat stories of boys punched outside in the street and killed with that one punch. Also, surely men too are vulnerable to sexual crimes against them? It's not a competition. It's all bad.

Men are at risk from other men.

There is absolutely no downside to society tackling the problem of male violence. Everybody wins.

Bb
All men who hurt people need to stop, absolutely.
The men who do this are often the men who subject women to disrespect and unwanted attention throughout their life (the woman). The scale of what is happening is why we're outraged, were not making it a competition.

There is absolutely no downside to society tackling the problem of male violence. Everybody wins.

/////

This sentence could be the line in the sand 👏

It's not a competition. It's all bad

Hmm I would argue that the majority of sexual, physical, domestic violence is experienced by women at the hands of men. Women also can get pregnant which is an added risk. Women also die (where men might survive an attack) because we are physically smaller. 3 women every week at the current count.

But that’s not the point. The point is, that only men can change this. By taking responsibility and addressing their own and other men’s behaviour.

Women aren’t doing it, we can’t change the behaviour or prevent it happening or avoid it.

Again, we are focusing here on the cause.