The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

Fuck me its “all lives matter” all over again.
The point is not about who gets attacked more. It’s about the fact that women don’t feel safe. The vast majority of men wouldn’t think twice about walking home alone in the dark even if they are far more likely to be attacked.

Do you give your sons advice on how to dress like we do woman?

Here here @Givitarest

So Tom hardy leching is ok... but if my husband leches over an actress with his mates down pub then that’s not ok. Double standards.

OP absolutely spot on. Yet another attempt at divide and rule. I’m fed up with one group being pitted against another, and people buy it everytime.

@Ihatefish

OP absolutely spot on. Yet another attempt at divide and rule. I’m fed up with one group being pitted against another, and people buy it everytime.

Was Black Lives Matter an attempt at divide and rule? Or was it an attempt to get people to listen and understand? How were the cries of white people getting defensive and trying to make it all about them received?

This is not an attempt to divide and rule, it is an attempt to get men to listen and understand met by the usual defensiveness of men and some women making it all about the men as per usual.

I have no intention of belittling women's special issues. But, believe me, men DO walk in fear of street crime too. We DO worry when the last bus runs early, even though the last train was on time, necessitating a walk home through city streets. Our fear isn't particularly of sexual assault, but we're still fearful.

@Ihatefish

OP absolutely spot on. Yet another attempt at divide and rule. I’m fed up with one group being pitted against another, and people buy it everytime.

And who's doing the pitting? The people saying we need to talk about male violence towards women, with a view to changing it, or the ones answering that with not all men and men get hurt and scared too, and let's talk about that instead?

That screenshot is absolutely not a meme, and I’ll assume you don’t know what a meme is to label it that.

Misogyny = men killing women

Misandry = women talking about men killing women

or the ones answering that with not all men and men get hurt and scared too, and let's talk about that instead

Yep.

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them.
Women are afraid that men will kill them.
Big difference.
Fuck off with your whataboutery.
I've sat down this week and thought about all the times when I've been verbally abused, harassed or assaulted by men. It started when I was 9 and the most recent was 2 days ago when I was spat at and called a cunt by someone going the wrong way up a one way street. I've been sexually assaulted, flashed at, groped, picked up, kissed against my will, followed, sexually harassed, stalked, verbally abused, spat at, punched in the face, threatened with rape ... and it's never been a fucking woman who has done any of it.

FWIW, you must live in a strange place if you are as worried for your ds than you are about yourself.
As a. 50yo. Mother of two teen ds, I’m less worried about them than I am about myself doing the same thing.

Well I must also live in a strange place. I've never particularly worried about being out at night alone but do worry about our sons.

Maybe I've been lucky or maybe I'm too blasé or naïve. Who knows. But making out that ALL women are always afraid out alone at night is an exaggeration and doesn't help the cause.

@exaltedwombat

I have no intention of belittling women's special issues. But, believe me, men DO walk in fear of street crime too. We DO worry when the last bus runs early, even though the last train was on time, necessitating a walk home through city streets. Our fear isn't particularly of sexual assault, but we're still fearful.

But you aren’t fearful of women are you?

My mum and I counted the times that we were physically abused, touched, threatened, mugged, sexually harassed and followed at night in genuine fear for our lives. She could recall at least 20, mine 12. Both of the first instances were predatory men that we did not know touching us when we were younger than 10. We were lucky, no clothing removed but we were sexually assaulted.
Almost every woman would be able to
Produce a list. This does not happen to men.
I do fear for my boys growing up in London as they are more likely to be attacked with knives if they wander into the wrong postcode - which is why, come September we’re moving out of London.
It’s a different kind of threat for women - it’s predatory. And it’s scary. And it’s not a bloody competition!
We need to not let this momentum go, educate our boys.

Maybe I've been lucky or maybe I'm too blasé or naïve. Who knows. But making out that ALL women are always afraid out alone at night is an exaggeration and doesn't help the cause.

Maybe you have been lucky. Personally I don't know a single woman who hasn't been assaulted or harassed by a male. The many women who post on here have had similar experiences.Please don't undermine the experiences of so many women that haven't been as lucky as you.

But you aren’t fearful of women are you?

This.

So much whataboutery going on.

IMO there is a MASSIVE difference between fear of getting beaten up or mugged and fear of sexual violence. The latter is way, WAY worse. The two don’t even compare. Men fear the former but women mostly fear the latter.

What’s more even though some men are stronger than others, almost all men would believe themselves to have somewhat of a fighting chance against one or two other men, whereas pretty well all women would be completely overpowered by almost all men, even weak men. The average 60 year old man is stronger than an athletic 25 yr old woman!

Also in my experience men tend to fear violence from “yobbos” or in particularly rough areas, whereas women can get harassment literally ANYWHERE, ANY time of day or night, and from ANY man, from suited-up professionals, to little old “gentlemen” to family-men just as much as from thugs in tracksuits and anywhere in between.

So yes, men can feel scared too (by other MEN, let’s be very clear - no one is quickening their pace at night because a woman is walking behind them) but no, it is not the same.

Whenever there is a piece about men’s violence towards women someone always pipes up with “what about men being attacked?”
Whenever there is a piece about men being violent someone always pipes up “yes but women are violent too”

Whenever there's a piece about women being attacked someone inevitably pipes up with "What about men being attacked?"
Whenever there's a piece about men being violent someone inevitably pipes up with "yes but women are violent too"

OP, I understand where you’re coming from (hence YANBU vote) but I think you’re completely missing the point. The two issues are not mutually exclusive.

We’re talking about sexual violence; not physical violence. We’re talking about a flawed patriarchal society where victims of sexual violence are shamed, blamed and silenced and the men walk free.

Your response to this is reminiscent of the ‘all lives matter!’ or ‘why don’t we have an international men’s day?’ type camps.

There are many massive issues facing our society that need addressing. Sexual violence against women is certainly one of them.

I have 2 sons and 3 daughters and it does concern me that there are expectations of men which make them vulnerable. I care equally for their safety.
Each time there’s an incident of violence towards a woman like the recent one it’s a shocking reminder of what a small number of men will do. However, the case of Denis Nilson isn’t ancient history. I wonder if there are more cases of vilolence from men against men than are known. A woman may not be believed and a man may be humiliated for reporting.

@FedNlanders

I've been really shocked that in some groups I'm in people are just responding with men get hurt too.

Quite.

And however it's explained, they just get defensive over their poor boys...

Data about violence against women has been under reported for a long time. Basically after 5 incidents of one man to one women the counting stops on records. This doesn’t include all the violence that wasn’t reported. The men are more likely to experience violence is a favourite argument that doesn’t hold up under act and knowledge of how the system works. That doesn’t mean I don’t want violence against men to end too but please don’t pretend it’s exactly the same and don’t assume that caring about one things means we can’t care about another.