The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

@Chanjer

You cannot say “

You can

When a claim is being made (that men walk the streets without fear), people are going engage with that claim, just like the OP has.

Man maybe you feel really misunderstood but I don't think in the light of someone's death is the time to clarify your position on it

Although maybe you do feel super threatened by this discussion I don't know

This whole topic is about that idea, which is why I posted it here. It's not about someone's death, it's about the idea that men don't feel at risk of being attacked. Prrsonay, I think most of the topics people have created around this case to air their personal grievances are in sort of poor taste.

God, the "pick me" women on this thread, bringing up the hurt feelings of their lovely husbands and wonderful sons and the wonderful men politely asking women out for a date are just pathetic.

I don't even disagree with you on some points, but WHY is it being discussed now and not last month

This thread is here and this discussion is taking place because of a murder of a woman and lots of people, rightly, feel very strongly about what happened and the circumstances in society that bring these things about. Trying to introduce a discussion about the suffering of men into a wider context of this murder is a bit weird

@DebbieGetsTheJobDone
Thank you, you made my point clearer. It was an argument I was trying to make but couldn't get across without apparently being inflammatory.

I don't know how to solve male violence, but I do know that to make this about the tiny number of false accusations of rape is absolutely disgusting.

Yeah you are all right. Most men are evil. You’ve convinced me. In fact I think I might divorce my husband. And I’m going to sell my son on eBay.

See, this SHIT is offensive. And I'm no woke soldier who is easily offended. But this is just weak, wet claptrap.
I too have a husband, sons, brothers, a father, uncles, male friends, cousins, neighbours.
My virginity was gouged out of me at 9 years old. I had to learn, as an adult, to truly trust, befriend, and be unafraid of males. The young man who raped me was the same age as my eldest brother and the same age as the young man who brutally raped and murdered my friends when I was 11. I don't feel that my son, himself a young man who has experienced violent assault, needs to be sold on eBay. I feel he needs to prove himself as a person of trust and goodness in a world where the majority of violent assault on women AND MEN, yes, is committed by... men.
To quote my aunt, who herself was a product of rape (man's fave weapon of war), "most men are very good people. But when men deliver trauma, you have to learn that they are good. You have to learn to trust them. It is not automatic."
A rapist is why she was given life. This is a fact. But my grandfather came into her life and raised her as his own. A good man. A solid man. A teacher to his children, adopted and biological. An example of a man.

To quote my father, who survived a concentration camp, "I have seen the malignancy of man. I am a man. I know what they can be made of. Be careful. Always."

I too have seen it. I have felt it. I have been traumatised by man's malignancy.
I also know that men can be loving, wholly good, and exemplary human beings. These are the men who can bring about change. These are the men who listen when women speak.

@TheVanguardSix

Yes. And boy it likes to hang around for a loong time. When I was assaulted as a kid by a friend of my parents there was a music video playing on the tv in the background. I still feel sick and ashamed when I hear it now.

tellme, solidarity hugs, fist-bump, tears... the works. Oh my god, how much I feel this.
I am knocking on 50 here. 41 years later, I still clench my vagina, cross my legs, seize-up whenever I hear the songs or see the video to my songs of shame. I know a part of me died when I was 9. The flush of shame that still greets me when that music plays is an awful reminder of what was taken away from me all those years ago and in the years since.

Vanguard

And so many years on and so many girls later some would attack us for asking why this is still happening on this scale.

Well screw them because if loud witches like you, I and all the other wonderful vipers here can keep sunlight shining on the issue I'll keep going. Creaky old knees and all

Who are the men you speak of in danger from OP?

And for whom do we need to reframe the movement against violence for?

@Chanjer
Because it's literally the topic

I didn't start it.

I'm male and have unfortunately been attacked by strangers on numerous occasions, including one attempted sexual assault. So yes, I share some of the fears that are common among women and run similar risk assessments.

But, of course, the assailants in all of the attacks were men so, while the victims may vary, male violence remains the problem and NAMALT protestations miss the point entirely.

I should also say that, while I have been unfortunate with regards to physical violence, I'm not subject to the 'low level' every-day stuff so often go years without being directly intimidated in any manner. It isnt a constant for me.

I'm not sure I'm adding much here tbh but those men who are terribly upset about talk of male violence should grow the fuck up.

If you read the whole transcript of the bloke in the park with the American woman and the dog you will read that he was menacing and it is his transcript
Both of them were awful but it never gets told because it didn't fit the 'Karen' narrative

@TheVanguardSix that was hard, but incredibly powerful, reading. Kia Kaha (stay strong) to you and all your whanau (family).

@MrChocolateHazelnutSpread Thank you so much for sharing your story, and raising your voice in support of those who are no longer prepared just to resignedly accept male violence.

@2021ismyyear

Yeah you are all right. Most men are evil. You’ve convinced me. In fact I think I might divorce my husband. And I’m going to sell my son on eBay.

@2021ismyyear I think I owe you a beer

@2021ismyyear

Another thing we’ve had in our county this week... a young girl was raped by a stranger. She was walking in daylight, down a secluded lane at lunch.

Police launched an appeal... social media was outraged. Threats to castrate him, calls of whoever did this was scum.

Police then said “after an investigation and forensics, the girl admitted it didn’t take place and the case closed”

I know I know, “it’s not all” women that make up stuff. But “some do”

Jesus fucking Christ I just despair

@MrChocolateHazelnutSpread

I'm male and have unfortunately been attacked by strangers on numerous occasions, including one attempted sexual assault. So yes, I share some of the fears that are common among women and run similar risk assessments.

But, of course, the assailants in all of the attacks were men so, while the victims may vary, male violence remains the problem and NAMALT protestations miss the point entirely.

I should also say that, while I have been unfortunate with regards to physical violence, I'm not subject to the 'low level' every-day stuff so often go years without being directly intimidated in any manner. It isnt a constant for me.

I'm not sure I'm adding much here tbh but those men who are terribly upset about talk of male violence should grow the fuck up.

Hi Chocolate good to have you here. I'm sorry for what happened to you but I'm glad you're here talking.

Can I ask you for a mans view on what other men can do to hack away at the small-er stuff? Do you hear many other men agreeing it's a problem?

This whole topic is about that idea, which is why I posted it here.
It's not about someone's death, it's about the idea that men don't feel at risk of being attacked.

I think you've missed the point, lots of men do fear attack etc (my OH being one) but this is mainly a women's forum and this is about women being attacked, attacks on men aren't relevant.

And you've just reminded me I wanted to reply to Nesbo from earlier.

Hi Nesbo good to hear a mans view and I'm sorry you've been a victim too. Thank you for not coming on to patronise us too. We've enough other women doing that.

It's interesting what you said when harking back to the days of clubs and pills. In those days whilst i didn't really dabble with drugs I enjoyed drinking while out. My friendship group then was mostly guys and I can honestly say, although 99% of people around me were off their heads on pills and speed it's probably one time in my life when I felt safest.

But I'd like to know, what do you hear on the issue we're discussing from other men? Do you hear it being called out? Would you challenge a mate making rape jokes for example?

I'm not even going to read the whole thread because I'm fairly certain the OP has probably had their arse handed to them by posters who can explain why this is a dick post much more eloquently than I can.

But here's my two penneth OP....

ODFOD

@BigFatLiar when discussing male violence surely all forms of that violence whoever suffers from it definitely is relevant ? Because unless we look at the bigger picture we are unlikely to be able to tackle this effectively.

I still think this is a “people” problem... not a man problem.

Just like the BLM conversation you cannot win against people that shout at you. The very people that were saying “be kind” last week are the ones writing just hideous things about davina McCall.

I will always stand up against people that do wrong... whether they are men, women, black, white. I will always teach my children to be decent human beings (my daughters and my sons).

What happened this week was beyond evil and I hope her family get justice.

Can I ask you for a mans view on what other men can do to hack away at the small-er stuff? Do you hear many other men agreeing it's a problem?
Honestly, I dont spend a lot of time socializing with men outside of the work place (and, when I do, it's usually in mixed company and where the men dont exhibit any obviously toxic behaviors).

I am a member of another online community (one that is male-dominated), that has discussed this week's awful case at length, and the discussion (including of topics like low level harassment and the 'women: stay at home' police advice) has been broadly the same as on Mumsnet. It probably isnt a group that's particularly representative of men as a whole, though.

In terms of reducing the every day stuff, men being more vocal in calling out toxic behavior on behalf of other men would help somewhat but, obviously, its far from a magic wand and isnt a position that I find myself in often. As to other actions 'good' individual men can take...I really don't know...which is broadly why I'm following these conversations.

@2021ismyyear

I still think this is a “people” problem... not a man problem.

Just like the BLM conversation you cannot win against people that shout at you. The very people that were saying “be kind” last week are the ones writing just hideous things about davina McCall.

I will always stand up against people that do wrong... whether they are men, women, black, white. I will always teach my children to be decent human beings (my daughters and my sons).

What happened this week was beyond evil and I hope her family get justice.

But it is overwhelmingly a man problem. The vast vast majority of those who commit violent crimes towards women, and indeed toward other men are men. That's just the truth, it doesn't mean that all men should be blamed, of course not, but we can't hope to move forward and improve things if we don't acknowledge that and just look to people in general.

@2021ismyyear

I still think this is a “people” problem... not a man problem.

Just like the BLM conversation you cannot win against people that shout at you. The very people that were saying “be kind” last week are the ones writing just hideous things about davina McCall.

I will always stand up against people that do wrong... whether they are men, women, black, white. I will always teach my children to be decent human beings (my daughters and my sons).

What happened this week was beyond evil and I hope her family get justice.

People problem my foot. It isn't people committing 90% of homicides. it is MEN. Say it out loud.

This.