The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

In our locality we have had a few men/young lads murdered. My brother was one of them 15 years ago. Outside his house stabbed in the back over 16 times by a friend! Another 16 year old lad was stabbed in his home during a party 3 years ago, again by his friend. Alcohol was involved in both cases. The other young me. It was drugs related. I dont know any of the men I know that have been murdered have been followed by a stranger, taken off the streets, raped then murdered as it seems the m o for these poor women. As a woman I don't feel safe walking the streets after a certain time. Women are much more vulnerable than me in that capacity

TitchGreen

It's not hard to not sexually assault a woman 😳

young men not young me

@TitchGreen

Did you mean at what point does persistence and "chasing" a woman become harassing? I think that's what you meant, as opposed to sexual assault?

For those arguing ‘there’s just a few sick individuals who attack women & that’s always been the case’ - do you honestly believe they just woke up one morning & decided to rape/kill a woman? There is an obvious escalation of violence & sexual behaviour. By the time they get to this stage they’re probably beyond help, but we can at least try to tackle the earlier misogynistic behaviours & the normalisation & often glamorisation of violence against women in our society.

I've talked to DH about this, he does worry walking home in the dark and so on, but not like I do - he doesn't hold on to his keys, he listens to music on headphones, he doesn't make/pretend to make a call if he realises there's a man behind him.

There's a difference.

@CatalinaCasesolver

Another shining example of whataboutery.

BuT wHAt aBouT tHe po0r MenS?

A lot of the commentary revolves around how men do not worry about being attacked. In my experience they do and the ones who don't should as men a more likely to be the victim of violent crime in the streets than women.

This whole topic is created to address that idea. You can address violence against women without painting a picture that men are skipping through fields at night without a care in the world.

It's going to lead to predictable counterproductive bun-fights, like this thread.

If this is the discourse here, what do you think it's like on a site not dominated by women?

And I say that as someone who knocked back my husband for a dance and a drink. You know what he did? Said no bother, you had a nice night? To which I replied conversation flowed and we're married with 2 children.

Had I said please leave me alone do you know what he would have done. Left me the fuck alone because he's not a sex pest or an abuser.

FFS it's really not as complex as you've attempted to make it to justify predatory behaviour.

• Can someone explain to me who is supposed to be teaching boys the rules of dating/courting? Because usually it's on the young lads to ask out the lasses. It's not needed or wanted all the time, but you don't find many lasses walking up to a lad at the bar asking them if they want a drink, or saying they like the way they look, wanna come for a dance? It's still the lad to make the 1st move (in most situations). Ok, so some girls will happily take the attention because that's why they went out on the first place, but others want the lad to try a bit harder, or don't want the attention at all. So if one girl wants the lad to try a bit harder and show a bit of persistence, because lets be honest some like to be chased, but another girl feels attacked by that same method, how is the lad supposed to know. So he's either successful or he's sexually assaulting her?*

Are you actually for real? If a man is too fucking thick to not be able to tell the difference between a woman who wants nothing to do with him, and a woman who welcomes his attention, then he should stay the fuck away from all women.

And as for assault, it’s not assault unless he touches her, so why is he touching women when he’s not sure they even like him?

@TitchGreenbut the answer there for young men is simple: ask once, politely, and if you get a no, leave it.

If it was a woman who wanted “persistence” then:
(a) the young man has avoided a tiresome game player
(b) the young woman will learn that playing stupid games doesn’t get you anywhere

So the man loses nothing by following the strategy of, “when she says no, she means no.”

It really is that simple.

I agree with the OP that the tone of the campaign probably will alienate quite a lot of people. That doesn't mean that the campaign is "wrong".

A bit like "Black Lives Matter". Fact is, there are going to be people who are not familiar with the background of the slogan who just think "Hang, on don't all lives matter? That's a bit racist isn't it?".

But nuance doesn't really go together very well with campaigning and social media. I think this kind of tweeting serves as the arrowhead to drive a topic into the light. Once it's there, the nuance can follow.

Is Davina spending equal time asking men to DO SOMETHING on Twitter or does she only have time to minimise the damage to women and girls?

@WizardOfAus @LexMitior
All I'm trying to point out is that women have different standards as do men.
By standards, I mean how they want to be approached.
Some women don't want the attention, so will feel attacked. They don't want men to chase after them.
Whereas another woman would enjoy the attention, she will want to be woo'd, for example the flowers, or messages, maybe she wants drinks bought for her on a night out.
So how is a man going to know the difference if he says the same things. Wires can get crossed on both sides, it's not black and white.
I clearly don't mean some of the physical contact, because physical contact requires a lot more explicit consent.

@Purplesunflowers

For those arguing ‘there’s just a few sick individuals who attack women & that’s always been the case’ - do you honestly believe they just woke up one morning & decided to rape/kill a woman? There is an obvious escalation of violence & sexual behaviour. By the time they get to this stage they’re probably beyond help, but we can at least try to tackle the earlier misogynistic behaviours & the normalisation & often glamorisation of violence against women in our society.

If you read criminal law reports this is exactly the profile. Usually some years of “socially acceptable” excuses for sexually inappropriate behaviour before offending.

As I believe will be the case for the murderer of Sarah. And the family and friends, colleagues and associates will say that there wasn’t a real problem: and they never expected it.

Another thing we’ve had in our county this week... a young girl was raped by a stranger. She was walking in daylight, down a secluded lane at lunch.

Police launched an appeal... social media was outraged. Threats to castrate him, calls of whoever did this was scum.

Police then said “after an investigation and forensics, the girl admitted it didn’t take place and the case closed”

I know I know, “it’s not all” women that make up stuff. But “some do”

In a way it's quite comical. When women aren't being groped, catcalled, groped, assaulted, raped and murdered by men we're being told off for asking "Why the F are so many men groping , catcalling, assaulting and raping?" because these men also attack men.

I'm actually surprised that it's taken this long for "she made it up" to raise its head.

When this happens absolutely she should face justice for what she's done. No one here will ever defend a woman accusing a man of rape or assault when it didn't happen.

You do realise that way, way more rapes actually happen than are made up, don't you? And are you aware of the pitifully low number of real rapists who ever see a police interview room never mind a court? And those that do will have a defence team that will rip that woman to shreds mentally? I hope you're as equally miffed about that.

@2021ismyyear

Another thing we’ve had in our county this week... a young girl was raped by a stranger. She was walking in daylight, down a secluded lane at lunch.

Police launched an appeal... social media was outraged. Threats to castrate him, calls of whoever did this was scum.

Police then said “after an investigation and forensics, the girl admitted it didn’t take place and the case closed”

I know I know, “it’s not all” women that make up stuff. But “some do”

Good job you can’t fake a murder then. That’s real.

You can address violence against women without painting a picture that men are skipping through fields at night without a care in the world.

But you can also address it at another time and not inspired by the murder of a woman?

I think it is very difficult for men who are not "like that" to accept that so many are are. My husband was in fact followed/propositioned and groped by men as a teen (by men), and in his twenties was very badly beaten up, unprovoked, to the extent that he was hospitalised.
I also had my share of horrible experiences, but thankfully none so violent.
I also have several brothers and male cousins who are not remotely macho or hard, and some of them have had bad experiences of males violence too. I really do think that most of my male relatives would be fairly careful when out and about. My teen son worries about knife crime, and actively avoids groups of unknown lads.
Personally, despite years of sexual harassment, I am, in my early 40s, no longer afraid to walk at night, or go through the woods alone. I definitely don't live in fear.
All these things are true, but all these things can be true without it taking away from the fact that girls and women (and I say girls first because the majority of violent assaults from strangers are on girls not women) are just not as evenly matched to men as a man is.
If DH is walking down the street and a man comes up behind him and grabs him, he has a pretty good chance of defending himself. A lot of people these days seem to be under the impression that there is not much physical difference between men and women. There is loads! DH weighs about the same as me, although is a bit taller, but he could pin me to the ground with one arm fairly easily (I know this as I have asked him to try). The difference in strength is actually quite astonishing , and I am a solid, strong woman-he is an very average slim man.
Aside from this, drawing attention to the fact that girls and women are subjected to a constant barrage of sexual harassment, assault and domestic violence does not in any way diminish the awful things that have happened to my husband! Why would it? Why are we not allowed to say this is happening? Men can talk about the things that happen to them and we listen.

Another thing we’ve had in our county this week... a young girl was raped by a stranger. She was walking in daylight, down a secluded lane at lunch

Police launched an appeal... social media was outraged. Threats to castrate him, calls of whoever did this was scum

Police then said “after an investigation and forensics, the girl admitted it didn’t take place and the case closed”

I know I know, “it’s not all” women that make up stuff. But “some do”

Ooh, what should I post on a thread about the violence and harassment women face from men? Ummm, I know, I’ll talk about how a tiny minority of women lie about rape, because that’s relevant....

Honestly if there are men who don’t understand how to flirt or ask a woman out without crossing boundaries they should probably stay at home.
If you approach a woman and she says no that’s not an opening gambit in a complicated game of ‘boyfriend or stalker’. It’s no.
And if she really really wants to say no but mean yes she’ll learn fast when you exit won’t she

I’m proud that my local area rallied together. We were all bloody horrified. Word spread on social media. People warned other people that a rapist was in our area. Men tagged women to warn them.

I can’t believe that someone made it up! She should be punished.

Hmmm I do realise that there are many more that are NOT made up. Just like most men are not violent and evil.

I should have had ‘cry rape’ on my bingo card but it’s been a busy day

Yea, and it’s such a scandal there’s no link to this whole dreadful affair...