The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

saying to a Muslim in a plane “I’m sure you are not dangerous but some Muslims are, do you mind if I check your suitcase again. In fact can you get a different flight... one without non Muslims because you are scaring us. Please also let me know what you are doing to educate other Muslims on not becoming terrorists?”

Except that people absolutely DO demand that all Muslims answer for the minority who have committed terrorist acts, and people absolutely DO demand that they are seated elsewhere or the Muslim (looking) person is removed from the plane.
I used to travel for work with a Turkish colleague who had a beard because it suited him (and he was a bit of a hipster) and EVERY bloody time we went through airport security one of us was stopped and selected for extra searches etc. Which of us was that, di you think ?Was it the middle-aged white woman, or the tall, dark skinned bearded man?

I used to be in the Army. I could tell you things about ordinary bog-standard husband-and-father men, who were perfectly alright team members generally, that would make your toes curl. Back then we had absolutely no luck getting any of the behaviour addressed beyond "well, you'd better make sure you're always with another woman". Not sure (m)any of the men had to put up with bullshit like that.

How do explain the women that do hideous things? They aren’t men... so what is it about them that makes them evil?

@BounceyBumblebee

I was thinking about this. The fact men are statistically more likey to be victims of murder and violence, but there is no public outcry.

But I came to the conclusion that the reason for this is -

The men getting murdered and subjected to violence are mostly in gangs, getting into fights, being aggressive or antagonistic themselves.

On the other hand, most the women that are subject to violence and murder are just walking home, minding their own business, being a wife, friend or girlfriend, trading sex.

So if men don't want to be victims of violence they just need to stop being violent. There is not much more women can do to protect themselves. We just have to hope that men stop hurting us. So we campaign and raise awareness in the hope we can feel safe, not only on the streets but for many, in their own homes, in pubs, nightclubs, on public transport, in taxi and pretty much anywhere where we come into contact with men.

God, it's actually so depressing when we really think about. I actually don't know anyone who hasn't been harassed by men in some way. Some of which were extremely traumatic, without going into details.

I don't really know what the answer is, but it's not on women to change their behaviour - it's got to be men because they are the problem.

The potential damage of violent porn has been raised a few times on this thread & I think this is a really important issue. I remember a lecturer I had at university (who specialised in researching sexual offenders) saying to us that the linking in the predator’s mind at an early age of sex & violence is key, as they come to associate sexual gratification with power/violence & need that to achieve arousal. Given the terrifying statistics about how many of our children are being exposed to violent pornography at a very young age, I worry that this could exacerbate & normalise their view of violence against women. Making it illegal to make & view violent porn would be a good start to protecting women in my view. However, I think it’s very unlikely to happen as it would require men to modify their behaviour. So much easier to tell women to modify theirs ...

Why does everything gets turned back round to "men too"

Fuck that shit.

People that do these crimes are obviously not right in the head. I’m not sure you can prevent them through education or asking others to call it out or asking mums to chat with their sons. Some people are sick, twisted individuals

And what about the other issues that are extremely common place in society? Men shouting at women from cars 'show us ya tits love' and other lovely comments, groping women in nightclubs, slapping an arse here or there, watching violent porn, getting aggressive in tone when advances are rejected etc etc...

However much you want to ignore it, those things are extremely common. They may not be as extreme as rape or murder but imo they are all behaviours which lead to the acceptance of the way men treat women.

Are all of the men who do things like this 'not right in the head' or just sick individuals? Or is it a wider problem with our society excusing this behaviour as normal and acceptable?

Isn’t it because of lower levels of self control? There’s clearly a difference in men and women. Maybe we should just drug men with female hormones...

God, this is another #metoo isn't it?

Women are trying to draw attention to the fact that they are vulnerable at any time of day or night, wherever they are. whatever they're doing, whatever their age and whatever they're wearing. And they are vulnerable to men.

So the men have to come along and say me too! I am vulnerable. Men attack me too.

Because they worry about walking down the street in broad daylight, they worry about walking home just as it's getting dark. They have men driving past commenting (loudly) about their appearance. They walk home with their keys in their fingers. They get attacked for turning men down in clubs...

Yep. It's all about them as well...

@2021ismyyear

How do explain the women that do hideous things? They aren’t men... so what is it about them that makes them evil?

What are you on about? Seriously.

Are you really trying to imply that people are saying women never do these things? This has been dealt with on this thread over and over.

Women can be violent, they can attack and murder and everything else but overwhelmingly less so than men. Female violence is not an epidemic in the same way as male violence is. Women aren't killing other women or men every three days.

It is not comparable. That's not the same as saying it never happens or doesn't exist just that it's not in the same league by a long stretch.

How do explain the women that do hideous things? They aren’t men... so what is it about them that makes them evil?

Careful, you surely mean some women? You wouldn’t want to look like you have double standards would you?

@2021ismyyear

Isn’t it because of lower levels of self control? There’s clearly a difference in men and women. Maybe we should just drug men with female hormones...

Oh so it's just because the men can't help themselves? Give me strength.

No it's because people like you ignore it and want to pretend it's not an issue. It's accepted in society as 'boys just being boys'. Hence why nothing will ever change until it's called out for what it is.

The potential damage of violent porn has been raised a few times on this thread & I think this is a really important issue. I remember a lecturer I had at university (who specialised in researching sexual offenders) saying to us that the linking in the predator’s mind at an early age of sex & violence is key, as they come to associate sexual gratification with power/violence & need that to achieve arousal. Given the terrifying statistics about how many of our children are being exposed to violent pornography at a very young age, I worry that this could exacerbate & normalise their view of violence against women. Making it illegal to make & view violent porn would be a good start to protecting women in my view. However, I think it’s very unlikely to happen as it would require men to modify their behaviour. So much easier to tell women to modify theirs

100% agree with this, a lot of these men shouting “not all men” go home and wank off to women being strangled and having a dick forced down their throat. It turns them on.

How do explain the women that do hideous things? They aren’t men... so what is it about them that makes them evil?

They're on the Violent Asshole spectrum too. It's not male-exclusive.
But mostly, you'll find that the shovel used to bury the body is nearly always held by a man's fingers.

Did your husband also say all lives matter 🙄🙄🙄

Do we really need to clarify that there are horrible women out there too? Really? Do you need us to confirm that before we are allowed to discuss this issue?

This thread is really interesting when you view it through the lens of how much the world really wants women to shut the fuck up about their experiences.

Ive read this having just had a long conversation with my daughter who is currently discussing the Handmaids Tale at school. Apparently lots of the girls were trying to make the case that the commander was nice to turn the light off when he raped her.

Its 2021 and here we are

I've never done any of those things in that post and I used to walk home alone in the early hours after nights out - sometimes absolutely pissed as a fart

I'm not sure if my height and size (I'm 6ft and plus-size) make me "unattractive" to the type of bloke who'd harass a woman?

I'm not what you'd call a shrinking violet either and have always stood up for myself - I'm confident and a bit gobby

I'm not saying that those who have experienced harassment aren't also confident women - but I do wonder if that's why I've never experienced it

Ok... for all the clever people on this thread what is the answer?

@FooFighter99

I've never done any of those things in that post and I used to walk home alone in the early hours after nights out - sometimes absolutely pissed as a fart

I'm not sure if my height and size (I'm 6ft and plus-size) make me "unattractive" to the type of bloke who'd harass a woman?

I'm not what you'd call a shrinking violet either and have always stood up for myself - I'm confident and a bit gobby

I'm not saying that those who have experienced harassment aren't also confident women - but I do wonder if that's why I've never experienced it

More likely you've just been lucky.

A protest March, slagging off all men on Twitter, cancelling davina? Banning porn? Education?

@2021ismyyear

Ok... for all the clever people on this thread what is the answer?

Not shutting down conversation and diverting any said conversation back to men. Allowing women to raise this issue without having to centre it around men again.

And lots of other examples posters have already given all through the thread.

You seem to think that because you don't see it changing it should just be ignored. Do you not see how that's part of the problem?

@2021ismyyear

Ok... for all the clever people on this thread what is the answer?

Many people have responded to you and addressed your stated concerns in good faith. It's unfortunate that you've somehow missed sight of them as they're numerous and thoughtful.

Nobody has come up with a solution that will work. Sadly, just tweeting woke opinions isn’t going to solve it

@2021ismyyear

Nobody has come up with a solution that will work. Sadly, just tweeting woke opinions isn’t going to solve it

Point me to where anyone said tweets were going to solve it all?

Have you read any of the actual suggestions by other posters?

Again, because you think it won't change, what? You just ignore it? God that's sad (and again, part of the problem).