The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

@nancywhitehead
Actually his hurt feelings are something he should have kept to himself. Why did he even tell you about his hurt feelings? Why couldn’t he just recognise and acknowledge her intentions and respond telling her what he is doing or has done? Instead he’s made you upset with her by telling you all about how upset he feels. Seems a bit spineless to me. Is he trying to create a division between you and her?

Unlikely your son's will need to fear women walking the streets though. Of course men can be in danger of violence on the street 99% from other men. But women will feel in general more unsafe than a man.

@ktp100
Men deal with these things in different ways. I don't think they expect society, in general, to be on their side when they are the victim of violent crime (i.e. have someone step in to protect them).

I've trained in "hard" martial arts, including MMA, for over a decade. Lots of sparring , lots of physically fit and even "scary" looking men. If you ask them why they started training, I'd say about half have a story that equates to feeling vulnerable to attack or actual attack.

One of my close friends started training after getting stabbed in a random group attack on his way home from work, he has now had about a dozen full contact amateur muay thai fights. It's not hard to see how one leads to the other.

In my school days, the boys weren't carrying keys but a lot were carrying knives in anticipation of the situation my friend found himself in above. Multiple students were stabbed in my time there, all boys. There was a particularly amusing period where a gang had posted up just outside the school gates and would mug the boys as they came past. It would have been seen unfavourably to mug girls in the same way.

@oldegg123

Exactly the same as those who responded to the BLM movement with "all lives matter".

I’ve been thinking the exact same thing. The reaction is identical.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

1 huge difference however as the case with Sarah has highlighted is often, sadly when its a man intent on kidnapping/snatching/causing harm to a woman this is far more easily done than if it were man v man. If you look at the accused in this case- he is a huge tank of a man and Sarah a very petite woman. Unless you are an absolute master in self defence/martial arts a lot of women just wouldn't stand a chance against a man intent on kidnapping her/causing physical harm. So we need to rely even more on gut instinct and trying where possible not to out ourselves in isolated situations, specifically at night. Also always having a plan of defence/attack at the back of your mind if you are in a more risky situation - i.e. having your hand already clasping a spray in your bag or these- www.holmesplace.com/en/en/blog/fitness/how-to-defend-yourself-from-an-attack-in-5-essential-moves

I give my sons similar advice too but that's because they are children and I worry about their safety when they are out alone. I am worried about their safety because of the actions men mostly.
Not allowed to mention women being killed or assaulted by men because men are also assaulted and killed by other men. Seems like there's a common denominator.

Just fed up all the woke people. This is the latest trend on Twitter.

If it’s ok to make assumptions, then you are basically saying we are ok to get nervous on a plane next to a Muslim, feel scared walking in London near black people, never employ men as nurses or nursery workers etc etc.

I wonder if there is a direct correlation between young boys being told they that feminine toys are not for them and instead to play army, with guns or fight. That they are chastised for showing emotions at young age because: "men don't cry", or to simply man up. I am not the least bit surprised to see males are more violent because of the way they are brought up. I would also argue that almost every man has walked a different way home, put keys between their fingers and crossed the road when other people are near by. This is not a problem of men are bad women are attacked, because men are and more so. This is an issue of society bringing men up in a way that normalises violent behaviour. More needs to be done about socio-economic factors for street robberies - almost 80% of these happen to men. And mental health issues. The more people bang this drum of #notallmenbutallwomen the more it will fall on deaf ears. Online is an echo chamber, you are seeing this in full swing.

[quote Mmn654123]@nancywhitehead
Actually his hurt feelings are something he should have kept to himself. Why did he even tell you about his hurt feelings? Why couldn’t he just recognise and acknowledge her intentions and respond telling her what he is doing or has done? Instead he’s made you upset with her by telling you all about how upset he feels. Seems a bit spineless to me. Is he trying to create a division between you and her?[/quote]
Weird comment there at the end :/

Yes, of course, he did respond that way, and it hasn't caused any big fallouts. We are both just a bit perplexed by it.

His feelings are still also valid.

I'm not upset with her because she is just taking action that is within her control and trying to help, as are most people. But I thought it was unhelpful and misdirected because there are more useful ways to make a difference.

We should all think about our actions and where they would be best directed, because if all we're doing is going around telling good men that they need to do more and making them feel bad, we're not going to make any difference at all.

It's quite sad and quite telling when you meet posters whose only point of view is "unless you agree 100% with everything we say and think what we tell you to think, you are against us"

It doesn't work like that
but don't expect people to be silent or become passive and accept everything.

I am not letting a bunch of men telling me what to do, I wont' start to put up with a bunch of women any time soon either.

My fear for my kids are as valid as yours.

You think that more people are raped than attacked on the streets of the UK 🤔

@Naunet was talking about sexual assault, @ChristmasAlone, not just rape.

Sexual assault is so commonplace, I probably couldn't tell you how many times I've been sexually assaulted.

I can remember the first time, and I can remember the last time, but every time in between? Every dickhead who's groped me in a bar or at a party? Every perv who's rubbed their genitals against my backside on a crowded bus, train or tube? Every sleaze who's brushed my breast "accidentally" when trying to greet me with a hug? I couldn't even begin to count them.

The worst of it is, I don't think my experience is in any way exceptional. A lot of women might not consider these events as sexual assaults, but that's exactly what they are.

@2021ismyyear

Just fed up all the woke people. This is the latest trend on Twitter.

If it’s ok to make assumptions, then you are basically saying we are ok to get nervous on a plane next to a Muslim, feel scared walking in London near black people, never employ men as nurses or nursery workers etc etc.

97% of women have been sexually harassed. Nobody is saying it's all men, but how, when walking alone are we, as women, meant to know if the man walking behind us isn't going to hurt us? What's the harm in educating out children than something as simple as crossing the road can help others feel more relaxed?

@nancywhitehead. I was interested to learn this morning that fewer women than men fall victim to violent crime.

Yes, I was aware of this as I would imagine most of us are. I think the difference is in the type of crime. Young men are far more likely to be the victims of gang/knife crimes. We can and do have many discussions about this - it’s an acknowledged problem and the statistics are horrifying. I also agree that a young man is more likely than a woman to be mugged.

I don’t think, however, that he is as likely to be sexually assaulted/raped/murdered as a woman. I also think that the statistics are at least partly due to the fact that women simply avoid going to places that they may perceive to be unsafe. We, sadly grow up being aware of the risks, whereas I don’t think men generally do.

I hate telling my daughter not to do this and not to do that. I hate gently suggesting that what she’s wearing might not be appropriate in a public place. (Does anyone tell their son their shorts are too short? ) All because it could put her in danger.

It is a different discussion from the one about the violence young men face with different solutions.
.

@nancywhitehead
But good men do need to do more. They aren’t doing enough. Why is it a problem to say so?

And the comment at the end is exactly what I think. Your husband didn’t like being told that while he’s a good man he could and should do more. So he told you she was out of order and that his feelings are hurt. By doing so he is creating a division between you and the friend who messaged him (assuming you are both her friend which is my interpretation?) and I don’t believe that is accidental. He’s putting her in her place in your mind. And it’s worked. She didn’t ask nicely enough. She wasn’t gentle enough. She hurt his feelings. So now he can justify doing nothing in response to what she said and you will support him.

He is in denial about his own response and so are you. Open your eyes.

How is her husband supposed to police a policeman who likely used his authority to kidnap and murder a woman? Because that’s what started this

It's not about being held responsible for the acts of perpetrators.

But calling out red flag behaviour before it reaches that point in the hope that we may be able to prevent future things from happening.

So every time a group of men are hanging out and one makes a misogynistic joke, call it out, don't just laugh 'coz is just banter y'know'. Every time they see a woman trying to deflect unwanted attention from a man who just won't leave her alone, call it out, don't just ignore it and think it's not your business and so on... Stop it from being so socially acceptable. Make people embarrassed to act this way by being called out by their peers for doing it.

I've mentioned it already but the Daniel Sloss stand up on this is good. He knew a man for 8 years who ended up raping someone and he said his biggest failing was that if he was truthful with himself, there was red flags in his friends behaviour beforehand that he didn't call out.

That's what men can do. That's how they can help. Some may already be doing that which is great. Others aren't.

So true sundowners.

Instead some are just saying 'well I don't do that so therefore I'm part of the solution'. It doesn't work that way. The solution is calling those who are doing it out and holding them accountable.

Yeah I’ve been followed, had a boss not let me leave the office until I kissed him (I was 19, he was married and it was horrible), I’ve been flashed (I was 7) on a train in London. I’ve been groped in the street helping someone that claimed he was blind, I was trying to help him. He wasn’t really blind.

I’m not going to start thinking it’s all men though. My husband is kind and nice to women always. My son is kind.

That would be like deciding not to hang out/employ young black men for fear they might stab you.

Or telling a Muslim women to start educating their community because there’s been too many suicide attacks. In fact being a bit fearful of her generally because she’s that type.

We cannot have it both ways.

I hope my DC don't live with this kind of fear. I hope that when I tell them to get a taxi home after a night out, I am telling them to do so because there are unfortunately some unpleasant people around, who are likely to become much more unpleasant when they're drunk. But I would hate them to become fearful, the boys as much as the girls.

If you have daughters then you really need to change your mindset. Young women going to a club need to be constantly on their guard these days, it's not just the gropers and the cat calling, it's now very common to spike drinks. MEN are spiking WOMEN'S drinks, I wonder what the purpose of doing that might be?

My daughter has had her drink spiked but fortunately had friends with her that recognised something was wrong and acted immediately to help her. She refused to report it to the police through shame and fear of nothing at all happening through the justice system.

The mother of that man that did that probably would never imagine he'd be the type. I've taught my daughter to trust no man until he's proved himself worthy of her trust and even then, be aware all the time. This sadly is the lived experience of the vast majority of women, still in the 21st century.

I’m not going to start thinking it’s all men though

Do you want to point out where anyone on this thread has stated that it’s all men?

The thing is, male violence against men is not women’s problem. Male violence against women is women’s problem. Women are not responsible for solving men’s problems and we absolutely should not be expected to be inclusive of men when so many women are violently attacked by them

The thing is, male violence against men is not women’s problem. Male violence against women is women’s problem. Women are not responsible for solving men’s problems and we absolutely should not be expected to be inclusive of men when so many women are violently attacked by them

💯 agree

I just for the life of me don't get why women feel they need to defend men - it must be some form of internalised misogyny for them to fail to understand how women face much more violence over their lifetime.

I remember the Rotherham scandal and reading about times when one of the men used to pick his sons up from school, still in their uniforms, and take them to abuse those young women. I know there have been cases of evil women (Myra Hindly, Rose West) but I struggle to see that a group of women would do this with their daughters to abuse young boys and for the group mentality to be that this was an acceptable thing to do - like these men thought.

The old saying speaks volumes - men are afraid women will laugh at them, women are afraid men will kill them.

Maybe not on this thread but it’s a theme that is everywhere.

I see davina has been “cancelled” because she dared disagree.

So it’s not all men you say, you agree with me. Just like not all black people are violent, not all Muslims are terrorists etc. Yet if we started these hashtags with other groups of our society there would be outrage.