The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

@JanetHandjob

Every woman you know has taken a longer route. Has doubled back on herself Has pretended to dawdle by a shop window. Has held her keys in her hand. Has made a fake phone call. Has rounded a corner and run.

Every woman you know has walked home scared.

Every woman you know

@FindTheTruth Part of the problem is this kind of blanket statement. I am a woman and have never done any of those things.

I am sorry that so many people live their lives in fear. However, please don't imagine that everybody does.

I hope my DC don't live with this kind of fear. I hope that when I tell them to get a taxi home after a night out, I am telling them to do so because there are unfortunately some unpleasant people around, who are likely to become much more unpleasant when they're drunk. But I would hate them to become fearful, the boys as much as the girls.

Then you are rare and privileged.

@nancywhitehead I don't think there is anything wrong with women sharing in general what would make them feel safer. I agree there is a difference between that and what you describe though.

This is the same flawed logic that lead people to say #alllivesmatter and again spectacularly miss the point.

@2021ismyyear

I find this anti-man narrative awful. All the hastags.

The woke brigade are a horrid bunch. It’s no different to being racist.

All those poor men raping and hurting others.

Clearly women are the problem.

@oakleaffy so.... you had to Godwin to make a point did you?

Never mind!

[quote BrittyBrassic]@nancywhitehead I don't think there is anything wrong with women sharing in general what would make them feel safer. I agree there is a difference between that and what you describe though.[/quote]
I agree. I think it's about the way that it's done and directing it at one particular man who hasn't done anything wrong was really uncalled for. Getting the message out is important for sure but we do need to consider men's feelings in all of this as well.

It would be good if there were men who could act as spokespeople about all this. I think it's much better if action comes from someone within their own gender.

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation

FGS MN. Stop responding to this blatantly obvious goady fucker.

goady and indifferent to the fact that our mothers, sisters, daughters, women and girls have a tally; crotch grabbed, masturbated next to on a train, followed, groped, called at and far far worse. It's more likely Women and girls will encounter this sort of behaviour over a lifetime than the average man. And the meme describes how it's forced into the female consciousness and is a factor in decision making for all women and girls.

Nancy

Granted an out of the blue unexpected message like that would be a surprise.

Once he'd had a lie down and recovered poor lamb, specifically which part of the message did he disagree with?

My DH is grown up enough to know exactly what his sex are capable of and the frequency with which they do it. He wouldn't dream of making his hurty feelings the centre of it.

It would be good if there were men who could act as spokespeople about all this. I think it's much better if action comes from someone within their own gender.

/// I'm genuinely pleased to agree with you here though

So the OP cannot get on board the campaign because it’s centralised only around women. Someone has done a right number on you, OP

Find *
*
Yes. There was a thread some time ago where posters shared examples of everyday sexism and misogyny. It was depressing and upsetting to read how quickly it got very dark.

And I'd say it happens to more of us than it doesn't

I find this anti-man narrative awful. All the hastags

Aww poppet . I find rape and murder pretty awful myself.

It’s interesting to me how so much porn these days shows women being strangled and having a dick forced down their throat, and men will happily wank away to it, unoffended. But women talking about these things happening to them in real life, is somehow incredibly offensive to men.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

And still no suggestions of how my daughter can avoid lewd sexual suggestions on her walk home from school. She's 12 and wearing her uniform.

Any ideas?

Because right now she's getting the clear picture she should just accept the shame, fear and embarrassment she feels.

Just tell her that not all men are like that and I'm sure it'll solve the problem.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

Nancy

Granted an out of the blue unexpected message like that would be a surprise.

Once he'd had a lie down and recovered poor lamb, specifically which part of the message did he disagree with?

My DH is grown up enough to know exactly what his sex are capable of and the frequency with which they do it. He wouldn't dream of making his hurty feelings the centre of it.

I suppose it was the fact that a good friend who knows him well thought that he would not already be considering this stuff, and also the idea that they implied he had no self awareness when actually he's one of the most self aware people I know. He also felt it singled him out as someone who is a potential risk to women, which he absolutely isn't.

I mean, in my eyes it wasn't really much different to sending a message to someone from a muslim background saying "this is how to make sure you don't intimidate people with your muslimness and make sure they don't think you are a suicide bomber who is going to kill them".

It was hurtful and based purely on his gender, something which he shares with 50% of the population.

Awareness raising and education do need to happen - but that is really not the way to do it.

I find this anti-man narrative awful. All the hastags.
The woke brigade are a horrid bunch. It’s no different to being racist.

The word "woke" isn't the insult you think it is. Maybe we should get Woke Brigade t-shirts printed up and a special secret signal so we can spot each other.

I can't see any anti-men hashtags. I can see anti rapist, anti murderer, anti catcaller, anti abuser messages all over my social media today. Although not just today because we didn't all suddenly wake up and realise that men murder women often enough for it to be a problem.

As the expression goes: if the cap fits, wear it. If you're not one of those men we're not talking about you

SharonasCorona

Well done you, for trusting your instinct at such a young age. Even security guards are capable of attacking women.

And police officers too, as we are now seeing.

Having a respected job doesn't stop a man attacking women, it just makes women lower their guards.

Women's violence to other women and men shouldn't be denied.

And why do you automatically think it is being denied? Because we're discussing men's violence towards women? Why is the conclusion that women talking about violence and behaviours they've experienced from men, automatically denying violence from, or towards, any other group of people?

I find this anti-man narrative awful. All the hastags.

Yeah. I'll tell you what's even more annoying, all the Missing posters of females plastered onto bus shelters. Now that really grinds my gears, babe.

@nancywhitehead

I think what's difficult is when people (like my partner) get messages from angry women telling them what they should be doing.

My partner received quite a patronising text message from a friend who is very passionate about all of this, telling him that because he is a man, he needs to be doing XYZ to make sure that women around him feel safe.

I thought that was unnecessary and that the passion was misdirected, and he felt a little hurt by it, as if she thought that he might be a danger to someone or be intimidating (he's really the least intimidating person ever).

To be honest I think he needs to get over it and would be quite interested in seeing the actual message. You say she's quite passionate about "all this" as if it's a bad thing?

When my non-white friends shared BLM resources and advice on how white people could educate themselves I didn't get huffy about being accused of being (unknowingly) racist and unconsciously biased. I sucked it up, accepted that I'd been born into a position of privilege and would be a good idea to learn more about what I could do to be an ally.

From this thread - I'd say it feels like Schrodinger's rapist but these women thought they knew these men:

mobile.twitter.com/sarahradz_/status/1370115353007726594

www.theodysseyonline.com/schrodingers-rapist-and-the-threat-of-violence-against-women

It’s worth reflecting that the goady behaviour is aggressive. It’s designed to upset women here.

Much like a man who bellows about equality, he doesn’t take to a high standard, he says, enjoy my low standards, my porn use, when I take the piss out women, walk uncomfortably closely to you in the street, think of me me me me.

That is not equality. It’s way of women being crushed before anything violent happens. That does not happen to men in general as a class.

So the OP is goady male aggressive - and offers a low standard of treatment for everyone.

No, I want to support a campaign to stop violence, but can"t support it at the moment because much of the language being used is offensive

I'm not a fan of offensive language either, @Givitarest, but there are no words that are as offensive as the violence perpetrated by men against women.

Imo anyone who thinks that linguistic niceties are more important than stopping men from killing women is part of the problem.

@DoormatBob

I was meant to quote the poster who asked what someone's DH had actively done to help?

As a non violent man I don't happen to know or associate with violent men but accept it?

Only once years ago I was aware of domestic violence with partners sisters boyfriend but police already involved. Honestly what could I do as a fellow man?

I had this conversation with my DH last night, he is a non violent, lovely man who would never knowingly hurt anyone physically or emotionally. I was talking about how much I resent the lessons I would have to teach our DD.

• to never walk alone at night
• to always have a system in place where her and her friends message each other when they get in the taxi and when they home
• to use the lift not stairs in dark building so she's covered by CCTV
• to carry her keys in her hand, have her phone in easy reach and walk purposefully when alone in a dodgy area
• to be confident saying No, walking away and approaching someone to ask for help if she's being bothered
• how to pull free if someone grabs her wrist or neck (we had these lessons in secondary school in a girls only special set of PE lessons while the boys played rugby)
• to always keep her drink in sight and ideally drink from bottles so she can plug the opening with her thumb to stop someone dropping something in it.

And the list goes on.

DH asked what he could do

• if you're walking at night and see a woman walking alone don't hang back behind her, make sure your head isn't covered with a hood, walk in the light where she can see you.
• if you hear or see someone making lewd comments, grabbing a girls ass in the bar, trying to chat her up while she's saying no and looking uncomfortable.... intervene. Tell the friend who's being a twat to stop, go up to the girl and start a conversation as if you know her, she'll play along if it means getting rid of the creep.
• teach your sons to be better, I've heard some dads talking to their teen boys about dating. If the girl said no when you asked her out, the answer is to respect that, not to 'just keep trying, she'll come round' because that's harassment.

Ultimately going back to the OP, yes more men are killed by men than women are killed by men. But this issue is about the endemic risk posed to women every single day, from every background in the U.K.

The fact that women are at risk from men doesn't negate the risk that men face, it's just a different issue.

Britty I can't fathom why I didn't think of that

It just feels a real step backwards.

Most people that do knife crime in London are young black men. That’s why the police stop and search isn’t just random. And people call that out all the time.

Now here we are those same people making generalised assumptions about a subset of our population.

How is that ANY different to the police or myself being scared of a certain type of person based in race?

Some people are psychos. Some a violent. Some are evil, sick twisted individuals. Women can be too. Old, young , black, white.

It’s dangerous to Make assumptions