The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

@MumsTheWordFact

Loving this thread and how people are talking as if there are no female murderers or females that commit violence, of course its less prevalent by far, but it does exist so please don't talk as if it doesn't.

Loving how you are incapable of seeing that you are missing the point spectacularly. You may as well scream 'all lives matter'. Check yourself.

Women can also be dangerous to other women

If you think the level of threat from women to other women is in anyway comparable to the threat from men then you are deluded. That's the point.

No one is saying there aren't women out there who are violent, who attack men, other women, kill, whatever. But it's not even on the same level.

How many men (or women) are killed by women? Every 3 days a woman is killed by a man. Do you think women are killing men (or women) at the same rate? Honestly?

Gosh, that sounds incredibly scary, actually.

The thing with children, boys as well as girls, is that we can do our best to bring them up properly and not to be murdering arseholes etc, but at some point they don't learn any more from us and go their own way. At that point we have to hope we've done our job properly.

Anger management might be one area that we have to do a lot more work on, girls and boys.

Totally agree that it worries me when i see the attitude of "oh stop demonising my lovely son" - well if your son is lovely, and calling out his mates for their sexist behaviour etc etc, we're not talking about him, are we?

@ilikethedark

The majority of men are not violent and therefore the memes to which you refer are offensive to most

Yes, but the majority of people who are violent are men. There IS an issue with men. We can't address this successfully if we can't acknowledge it.

This is what people misunderstand.

No one is saying all men are violent. But you can't deny that the majority of violence is carried out by men... The fact your son, Dad, brother, friend isn't violent doesn't change the problem, neither does informing everyone of that when people try to discuss it.

I worry a lot about my son, and if he will be safe. However, it would just never occur to me to complain about, for example, anti knife crime measures, or posters about keeping teen boys safe on the streets.
It would never occur to me to say "but what about WOMEN?!"
I support all efforts to stop violence, against anyone.
Why is it that whenever women draw attention to the tsunami of violent crime against our sex we are told off for either not being "more careful" or for not thinking about men?!

And still no suggestions of how my daughter can avoid lewd sexual suggestions on her walk home from school. She's 12 and wearing her uniform.

Any ideas?

Because right now she's getting the clear picture she should just accept the shame, fear and embarrassment she feels.

Totally agree that it worries me when i see the attitude of "oh stop demonising my lovely son" - well if your son is lovely, and calling out his mates for their sexist behaviour etc etc, we're not talking about him, are we?

/// Thank you Brefugee

Women are victims of violence by men.
Men are victims of violence, by men.

Generally seems to be men who are the problem here.

I don't know why so many women are minimising male violence. Why? I have three sons and a daughter. I want to teach my sons to be good men.

All those saying 'it's never happened to me ''all the violence has come from women' 'it's because I sink into the background' 'it's because I had a strong father'. That is victim blaming rubbish.

I had a strong father, how was that going to stop a man getting his willy out and wanking at me when I was walking home through a busy park beside a road from university in Manchester at lunchtime? I'll bet that hasn't happened to your husband and it's not something he worries about.

If it hasn't happened to you, it's luck. You're in the minority. Do you think women were making 'me too' up? Support the women. Hold men accountable.

If Sarah Everard had been a man, she would still be alive right now.

That's the difference.

Women have to demonise all men, it's the only way we can keep ourselves safe. We have to assume every man has the intention of harming us. We don't know which ones are good or bad, what is in their minds, or whether they are good, decent people or not. All we need to know is if we are going to be attacked, it will be a man who does it. We just don't know which ones are capable and which ones aren't, so we have to assume they all are.

And regarding women taking measures to keep themselves safe? I have been attacked in a friend's house by an acquaintance of that friend. I have been cornered at work by the fiance of a colleague. And I have been on a busy rush hour bus when a man I didn't know put his hand up my skirt.

Women making sure they aren't out alone at night just doesn't cut it. We are at risk from men everywhere and everyday of our lives.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

And still no suggestions of how my daughter can avoid lewd sexual suggestions on her walk home from school. She's 12 and wearing her uniform.

Any ideas?

Because right now she's getting the clear picture she should just accept the shame, fear and embarrassment she feels.

Advise her to photograph the vehicle and/or person. Each and every time. Then report it to the police. Each and every time. And don't stop. Ever. Encourage her to have a zero tolerance approach from day one so by the time she joins the workforce, she'll have no hesitation in reporting sexual harassment at work and by the time she has a boyfriend, she will have no hesitation in reporting him.

Call it what it is from day 1.

Every woman you know has taken a longer route.
Has doubled back on herself.
Has pretended to dawdle by a shop window.
Has held her keys in her hand.
Has made a fake phone call.
Has rounded a corner and run.

Every woman you know has walked home scared.

Every woman you know

YABU @Givitarest to dismiss with 'The men I know feel like this too' on a day that 118 murdered women's names have been read out and every woman, every girl has a tally because they are FEMALE.

@BrittyBrassic

Women can also be dangerous to other women

If you think the level of threat from women to other women is in anyway comparable to the threat from men then you are deluded. That's the point.

No one is saying there aren't women out there who are violent, who attack men, other women, kill, whatever. But it's not even on the same level.

How many men (or women) are killed by women? Every 3 days a woman is killed by a man. Do you think women are killing men (or women) at the same rate? Honestly?

Women aren't all fluffy angels.

They can be vicious and unbalanced..and dangerous.

It doesn't matter that there are statistically less of them, if you end up at the random hands of one, you may well change your tune.

Some of the most savage members of the SS were women.
Women's violence to other women and men shouldn't be denied.

If he abuses her obviously.

You think that more people are raped than attacked on the streets of the UK 🤔

I said sexual assault, not rape. I’ve been sexually assaulted several times by random men on nights out. Do you have a problem with women talking about that?

And my last comment wasn't blaming women at all. Simply saying that we take these safety measures but it isn't enough.

The real answer is for men not to attack us.

To be fair i did get punched by a woman once, but it was a misunderstanding and we had a drink and agreed that she'd been a bit of an arsehole and that was that.

I've been punched several times by men. what can i say, I don't keep quiet when i see things and i sometimes overestimate how much support bystanders will give me.

I went to pick up my DD from an event once, there had been a lot of drinking etc and it was in the middle of nowhere, 3am. Driving down the unlit road we saw a young man and woman up ahead, so i stopped and asked where they were going (on our way) and did they want a lift. So when they hopped in i said "what the fuck are you doing getting in a stranger's car in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere" and they said "oh but you're a woman, not scared of you" (well my DD started to snigger which might have worried them if they'd heard it.)

But very clearly they would not have got in a man's car. It's quite awful, really, to think about it.

It is unhelpful to extrapolate the actions of a few men to their entire gender, in the same way that it is unhelpful (and wrong) to say that for example all muslims have some responsibility for terrorism.

Yes, of course it is important that men talk about this and acknowledge it as an issue, and try to find ways to address it. In the same way as it's important for muslim people to talk about terrorism. As many have pointed out, it's simply fact that a proportionally higher number of men than women commit violent crimes, so of course that needs to be acknowledged and spoken about, and we shoud have discussions about why that might be and what could be done.

But in doing so, we don't need to demonise men or imply that all men are doing something wrong, simply by virtue of being male.

Demonising and blaming an entire group really, really doesn't help the cause. It only causes division and fighting between people who actually are mostly in agreement - that violence against women is bad. Violence against anyone is bad! Most people agree with those statements, so let's not alienate 50% of the population.

”...and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.”

@Givitarest - to me, this last sentence says women must ask nicely and respectfully, if they want the issue of male violence against women to be taken seriously. Is that what you really believe?

It’s as if you are saying that, although the problem of women being killed by men is bad, women should earn decent treatment (aka being allowed to live) by asking nicely. That is shocking.

@Mmn654123

If he abuses her obviously.

Thank you. Now she's told us (it's happened before but she was too upset at the words they used to tell us ) that's the path we're going down.

As you say, while she may not yet have the confidence to confront it now hopefully she will later.

And I make no apologies if she offends or upset the mother of that man.

Women have to demonise all men, it's the only way we can keep ourselves safe. We have to assume every man has the intention of harming us. We don't know which ones are good or bad, what is in their minds, or whether they are good, decent people or not. All we need to know is if we are going to be attacked, it will be a man who does it. We just don't know which ones are capable and which ones aren't, so we have to assume they all are.

So true. I remember being on holiday aged 18, and went to a museum. It was closing time and I got separated from my friend. The guard pointed the way out, but it was down a shadowy flight of stairs and no one was around. He saw me hesitate and realised my fear, and made an 'oh no, how could you eve think that of me' noise and expression. I found another way and a long time afterwards I cringed at myself for making the guard feel bad.

It's only now that I'm older that I realise I did absolutely the right thing, that my safety was much more important than his hurt feelings.

oak where has anyone denied women can be viscous? Have you read the thread? It's interesting your posts are devoid of any empathy towards the women here and their experiences

I was interested to learn this morning that fewer women than men fall victim to violent crime. The truth is that men have just as much to be worried about, although I think women do tend to experience more fear about what could happen to them.

www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/51/fewer-women-than-men-fall-victim-to-violence

Women are far more likely to be murdered during a sexually motivated attack than a man is.That's the difference.

Women aren't all fluffy angels

Excuse my language but such obvious misinterpretation is so frustrating, because who the fuck has said that they are?

Again NO ONE IS SAYING WOMEN CAN'T BE VIOLENT.