The men I know feel like this too ...

[Givitarest]

This "Every woman you know" meme is trending on social media. But men are in danger from violent men too and, in fact, are much more likely to be a target. With reference to Jess Phillips, if a politician were to read out the names of all the men who had died at the hands of other men, as well as the women, it would be a very long list indeed. If society has "just accepted" dead women then we have just accepted dead men too.
I fear for my sons' safety, and give them very similar safety advice as I would if they were daughters. My husband has always taken similar measures to the things on this list (whilst also avoiding walking behind lone women etc) and has had more negative personal experiences than I have. So can people please stop sharing memes that demonise men? It is 'misandry' ... the antonym to mysogyny ... and the movement against violence will not win widespread support unless it is more appropriately framed.

@Givitarest

Take the hint from your own username.

"What can we do about male violence towards women?"

"Men get attacked by other men too, we need to talk about that instead, and if we don't, well that means you're demonising all men and that's wrong"

Great way to not discuss male violence against women. Again.

Aaahhh people men are always going to rape and people mostly men are always going to commit violence.

So what do you suggest happens? How can good men prevent thus from happening?

Male violence is a massive problem. Women can try and help prevent it and support victims when we're not the victims ourselves. Women are also actively challenging systems and practice which affect other women and girls. FGM for example.

Those of are with the OP in this - once you've tired big screeching about how awful we all are here, what will you do to encourage other men to sort out the shit other men do? Seems like a more productive use of your time.

So many typos in my posts

Whenever an accusation is made about a small number of people, we often call on the rest of them to deal with the issue. This goes for extremism, racism, and some other issues.

No one says those people are racist. They usually say that racism needs to be tackled in society.

This is no different. Some men kill, others do low-level aggressions and get away with it, others look the other way. Our society needs to address this as a whole, and urgently.

@DebbieGetsTheJobDone

You understand that you're able to talk about one problem without denying the existence of another don't you?

oh some of us are, I question the ones who aren't, that's the point.

And yet you are the one repeatedly bringing up different types of crime, different types of violence and other victims.

If you already put yourself in the potential position of being a victim in a serious relationship. there's something very wrong

That's the point, we as women continually have to evaluate risk about men. I've told my husband too that I'd have no qualms about calling the police if it were ever needed.

We've been married years, never had the need to because he's never given me cause to. I suppose I'd be described as 'feisty' by the men that would prefer me to get back in my place and keep quiet.

All women should have the power to say to a potential life partner that they will tolerate no crap from a man. Sadly a lot of women have been socialised to keep quiet and put up.

@MumsTheWordFact

Loving this thread and how people are talking as if there are no female murderers or females that commit violence, of course its less prevalent by far, but it does exist so please don't talk as if it doesn't.

I'm equally loving the fact that you ignored everything that has been posted just to say that!

Women here are talking about the violence they face, the fear they feel. Why are you trying to shame them into silence?

@DanielODonkey

Can We, as a society, not have a conversation about women and women's safety without it turning into "what about men"?

Please. Everyone knows men are at risk of violence too. from men

This conversation that is happening is abkut women's safety and how men can finally finally start taking responsibility for reducing women feeling scared and for taking other men to task for their problematic behaviour. And for men to stop raping and killing full stop.

This. It’s the same as people who said white lives

Ok so my opinion on this is if men feel threatened by men then they can stand up and start their own movement calling for less violence against men.
Why do women have to be quiet about this, it's bullshit.

OP How should it be framed?

Posters seem to divide between "how can I raise my sons to respect women?" and "stop saying mean things about men and demonising my darling son

I think even in my own life I can flip between these a little bit. It is hard to picture my lovely little boy and his sweet, kind little friends ever growing up to hurt or abuse or degrade someone. But some of them will. And of course I fear for my son - every parent fears that something bad will happen to their child regardless of sex, but it is not the same fear I have for my daughter. I don't tend to worry my DS will be hit by his partner, will be ignored and underpaid at work, will be treated as eye candy despite being a professional, will be cat called, groped by both strangers and those she trusts.

I remember once years ago DH and I were at a wedding and we were chatting with the bride's brother about a recent holiday to Thailand. Apparently when I left the brother said to DH he'd loved Thailand because you could buy a woman for a whole night for £20. DH apparently just sort of said 'oh right' and quickly moved the conversation on. When DH told me, I was absolutely fucking furious that he hadn't called him out on it, as I certainly would have if I'd heard it. DH said we were at a wedding and he didn't want to cause a scene, even though a stranger just nonchalantly boasted about paying to rape a woman.

It really shook me at the time. My DH is genuinely lovely - kind, thoughtful, gentle, and very aware of issues of equality, but he does not have that internal burn of fear and rage that comes with being a woman. For that woman in Thailand, bought by disgusting perverts every night of the week I think 'there but for the grace of God.' DH never has to think that way. I couldn't help but wonder, if my DH won't stand up for women, who will?

This is very similar to black lives matter and people saying what about all lives matter.
A woman gets murdered and someone pipes up and say men get murdered too.

Not really the point OP.
Men matter every day all the time.

I was just talking to my husband about this. There’s two differences.

First women grow up expecting to face male harassment. I imagine all women have put up with cat calling and “cheer up love” type of crap. I think most have probably had their bum pinched etc. It’d be nice to go for a jog without worrying if a man is going to comment. Men do not have to deal with this.

Second, I think young men are also worried about violence when alone at night but the difference is as a woman I’m worried I might get raped or nurseries, men are worried they’ll be beaten up. So, the stakes are higher for women and the lower level harassment is very very pervasive.

@Flossy05

I completely agree *@Givitarest*. The majority of men are not violent and therefore the memes to which you refer are offensive to most. This is about violence against people, all people. My 45 year old husband wouldn’t walk across the city where he works at night for fear of being attacked. This is not just an issue that affects women.

Think that through!

The majority of PEOPLE are not violent.

50% of PEOPLE are at an automatic physical disadvantage when it comes to violence

50% of PEOPLE are those that carry out 90+% of all violent acts

When walking down the street, into a room, a strange place wouldn't you like to know which of those PEOPLE you are and which of those PEOPLE make up the others in the same space?

It's called Risk Assessment!

And it has fuck all to do with any individual PEOPLE!

• raped or murdered

I disagree with the OP. I do not ignore or fail to acknowledge that men can be the victims of violence, hence my reference in discussing domestic violence to say that the victims are 'usually women' (as some are men). The situations, the threat that women face and the numbers who do are much greater than men.

Posters seem to divide between "how can I raise my sons to respect women?" and "stop saying mean things about men and demonising my darling son".

It's depressing that it is your interpretation.

The truth is that normal parents are just as worried for their girls than their boys. WE KNOW the shame and trauma associated with violence (and sexual violence).

People like you talking about our "darling sons" are exactly the reasons why these kids will feel completely abandoned and lost if anything happens to them.

You might be dismissing problems because the statistics say so, but as a mother, the statistics worry me.

We are still in a culture where violence against boys (let's not say men to avoid a meltdown) violence against boys is at best denied, at worst laughed at.

I don't believe there's such a hatred in discussions about child abuse - then it's "children" as a whole, as it should be. But as soon as you talk as a mother, the nastiness arrive.

that's not what I said. If I was in a relationship where I would feel the need to warn him I would call the police in case of violence, I wouldn't be with that person in the first place! It's insane

I know it's not what you said or meant... The point was that rather than thinking of it like you do, do you not think it's actually very sad that women feel the need to do this in the first place? Do you not wonder why that is?

And it's very easy to say 'I wouldn't be with an abuser in the first place' as if women get with these men knowing they will be abused by them 🙄 the fact that it's so common is why people feel the need to do this in the first place. That's the real problem.

@VerityWibbleWobble

If you already put yourself in the potential position of being a victim in a serious relationship. there's something very wrong

That's the point, we as women continually have to evaluate risk about men. I've told my husband too that I'd have no qualms about calling the police if it were ever needed.

We've been married years, never had the need to because he's never given me cause to. I suppose I'd be described as 'feisty' by the men that would prefer me to get back in my place and keep quiet.

All women should have the power to say to a potential life partner that they will tolerate no crap from a man. Sadly a lot of women have been socialised to keep quiet and put up.

DH and I had this conversation early on too. I'll tell DD to have it with boys in future too.

@InconvenientPeg

But it's not the same.

I hadn't appreciated how deep that difference ran til I was in a bar with work mates. Female colleague leaving for the train. I said we needed to walk her to the stations there's a dark bridge to go under which has an eerie feel to it and often groups of people hanging around.

I'm 6'1" so have a slightly different experience to the average woman, I am slightly less vulnerable because of my height and strength (only slightly tho, it's not a free pass still). I would expect to get cat called and maybe physically harassed on that route still.

The guy we were with is about 5'4". Seriously small. He was amazed that we would be intimidated by walking that route, had never experienced any harassment and had never considered it would be an issue.it literally had never crossed his mind.

Imagine being that free. It blew my mind.

It's not him being ''Free''...It is an attitude of mind.

Maybe he is just gullible?

Underpasses, Parks, graveyards, multi storey carparks put me on edge,

but as have stated elsewhere have thus far only been physically attacked by other women on the street.

In broad day, in ''Middle class'' areas.

A young Black man saved me from a sustained attack by a clearly deranged younger White female whom I'd never seen before, at risk to himself.

Women can also be dangerous to other women.

While recovering, I watched ''Active Self Protection'' on You Tube.

It features videos of attacks and states how one should be REALLY vigilant.
He talks people through the videos, and it was very interesting.

'Walking down the road as so many of us do, phone in hand, or listening to music puts us on the back foot.

Be aware. Be Vigilant. Day or night.

We are still in a culture where violence against boys (let's not say men to avoid a meltdown) violence against boys is at best denied, at worst laughed at

I agree with you somewhat here. I think it's important to discuss violence against men too, men in abusive relationships, rape victims etc... And I agree that they often aren't taken seriously (imo, often by other men).

BUT that doesn't mean it's appropriate to wade into a discussion about male on FEMALE violence and divert said discussion back toward male victims of violence.

The issues are separate imo. There are lots of differences in the experiences of men and women when it comes to these sorts of things that I think makes these issues different and unique. Lots of examples given on this thread and in the statistics alone.

The issues aren't the same and deserve their own discussions without anyone jumping in and trying to divert the conversation.

but he does not have that internal burn of fear and rage that comes with being a woman.

//// this. 100%

The other night at around 9pm at night. My husband announced he was thinking of going for a run ... outside... the the dark. I felt sick, sweaty and worried instantly. I said I hope your not thinking of going the routine you did last time, he said no, I said that's good. He said, because I planned to do the other routine, I said that's a relief because I would be worried about you doing that in the dark, he was completely complexed by that response and he said no, it's just because he wanted to do a uphill run!

It's completely alien to him that he should be worried about that.I would add he has some autistic traits, we have two children who are autistic and he recognises a lot of traits in himself, so he's just not as self aware as other people but even still, it was shocking to me that he didn't have any concerns about his personal safety whereas I would have concerns just walking home from a friends a few doors away.

He's literally just come in to go for a run again lol and I asked him if he ever fears going out and he says no, never crossed his mind, I know him, he's not the type to be macho about these things.

Sigh.
Can't we talk about a woman's issue without centering men? Just for once.
Totally agree that male violence towards other men is a huge problem. Can we not have a seperate conversation about that?
I refuse to qualify either statement with reference to the majority.