Too Many Men

[JackieBeaver]

I'm feeling very sad about the Sarah Everard case. Poor poor woman. There's a lot of stories coming out now from women who have experienced feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of men with the hashtag toomanymen trending on Twitter and Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men.

We need a change! This can't go on, I'm so tired of feeling unsafe and unable to go about my business without fearing for my safety. I'm worried for my dd also

Enough is enough

@thedancingbear Yes - I think men have a lot to fear from other men too. I once saw a statistic - don't know if it's still relevant - that the people most likely to be attacked on the street are 17 - 24-year-old men.

It’s not necessarily about calling out strangers behaviours....it’s your mates, your family members, your work colleagues....are they all going to kick your head in if you call them out on shitty behaviour towards women?

all those dangerous women

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/women-murders-men-ons-sarah-everard-b1815779.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1615468159

I’ve had a policeman in my house when I was on my own (after a burglary, giving a witness statement etc). After this, I will be doing my best to avoid being alone with one. We are not safe anywhere.

I meant that 17 - 24 year-old men are more likely than women to be attacked by other men ...

@Advic3Pl3as3

It’s not necessarily about calling out strangers behaviours....it’s your mates, your family members, your work colleagues....are they all going to kick your head in if you call them out on shitty behaviour towards women?

Exactly. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people go to to absolve men from taking responsibility.

'men should call other men out when they're being misogynistic'

'Noo!! I won't risk my Son getting Murdered!!!!'

And on a side note, doesn't this just prove that men as a class are violent if even other men are scared to question them?

@Advic3Pl3as3

It’s not necessarily about calling out strangers behaviours....it’s your mates, your family members, your work colleagues....are they all going to kick your head in if you call them out on shitty behaviour towards women?

And that's just it. If it's a situation where you feel fully safe, call them out on their shit. If you feel the least bit unsafe, it's some guys you've only met a couple of times down the pub, mates of a mate etc. then casually remove yourself from the garbage company you are currently keeping, and decide what, if anything, needs to be done. There's really not much to do about some guys you don't really know talking about what size breasts they like, other than to steer clear in future.

@Advic3Pl3as3

It’s not necessarily about calling out strangers behaviours....it’s your mates, your family members, your work colleagues....are they all going to kick your head in if you call them out on shitty behaviour towards women?

No. The difficulty is that those of us that are basically decent come from basically decent families, and associate with basically decent people.

I certainly call out misogynistic shite when I hear it, and it is safe to do so, but if the people I work and knock about with do harbour misogynistic attitudes, they are pretty good at concealing them.

Whereas the kind of people who hang out with the blatant arseholes...birds of a feather and all that.

The majority of men don't though

Can you tell the difference? Because most of us can’t.

@CaveMum

The point I made earlier about men speaking up wasn’t in regard to putting themselves in danger. I’m talking about the “low level” acts that are the foundation of greater misogyny.

For example, if Man A was in a bar with a group of male friends and one of them said something like “Nice tits love” to a passing woman, I would fully expect Man A (and all the others for that matter) to pull him up over it and tell him not to be such an arsehole.

Starts well before men in bars. Ask girls in primary school why they wear cycle shorts under summer dresses, ask girls in secondary school about the name calling, groping, sexual shaming and casual sexism they face both inside school from fellow pupils and outside school walking home in broad daylight.

And on a side note, doesn't this just prove that men as a class are violent if even other men are scared to question them?

Yes, 100%. I'm a man. Men as a class are violent. No question. Some of them fucking scare me.

@IJustWantSomeBees

Yes, it does indeed prove some men are violent. Not sure anyone has said differently.
I also wouldn't recommend standing up to certain types of women, regardless of your sex.

I meant that 17 - 24 year-old men are more likely than women to be attacked by other men

If sexual assault was included in those stats, we might see a different picture.

@Naunet. Yes.

A curfew is clearly a ridiculous and unworkable idea.

But, I can't safely go running through the park at night. If I did go running through the park at night and was raped or sexually assaulted, people would say I was stupid for going through the park at night.

We women do have to alter our behaviour all the time because of some men. Often putting us at inconvenience.

So essentially women are under a curfew.

As a woman with two sons and a husband, a brother I am fully aware that most men wouldn't hurt a soul.

But something does need to change, and it ought not to be women's behaviour. Men's attitudes towards women need to change.

rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/about-sexual-violence/statistics-sexual-violence

only 15% of sexually violent assaults a reported

90% of people knew their attacker

If we looked at unreported violence I bet the figure changes and women are more at risk

The curfew was a joke. Of course we couldn’t expect men not to go out between the hours of darkness. It would be diversive and an infringement of their freedom.

Oh hold on isn't that what some women are already doing or being told to do so by the police?

If 120 people were being killed by terrorists year in year out there would be uproar.
People would want something done.
Nobody would be looking for excuses for why it happens or why we cant possibly do anything to stop it.
Certaintly nobody would think to blame the victims.
This is terrorism.
Women are being terrorised and curtailed in their day to day lives by fear.
Im so sick of it.
The fear, the blame, the namalting.
All of it makes me fucking furious.

Aren't the majority of people attacking 17-24 yr old males other makes? Still male violence 🤷

Yes the curfew at face value seems a ridiculous and unpractical law and it tars all men with the same brush.

However all women on a daily basis do things without even thinking that is built around our fear of being out alone in the dark. I always have my key and phone out when I get out of the car to go to my front door so I’m outside for the shortest amount of time. Whenever I see my girlfriends, we always text each other when we get home so we know each other is safe. We all have the emergency SOS text thing on our phone set up to send out our location if we are in trouble, I don’t think most men even know about this function. I used to work to and from work, I would listen to an audiobook on the way there when it was light, but no way would I have my headphones in in the dark, I needed to be able hear of anyone was behind me.

Why is it ok that we have to live our lives like this, that when my daughter is older I will have to have this conversation with her, to then make her have to go through the same actions that I have to, to be fearful of being out.

@IndecentFeminist

Aren't the majority of people attacking 17-24 yr old males other makes? Still male violence 🤷

I don't think that's in dispute.

There's no harm in pointing out that male violence is a big problem for men too (plenty of whom are non-violent).

I do tend to think the focus of the narrative should be 'male violence' as much as 'violence against women'. If we are going to tackle the problem then it helps for it to be properly identified.

@Coffeeandcocopops

The curfew was a joke. Of course we couldn’t expect men not to go out between the hours of darkness. It would be diversive and an infringement of their freedom.

Oh hold on isn't that what some women are already doing or being told to do so by the police?

If they have to issue such advice to women and girls the streets are not safe enough and they are failing in their duty.

Rather than suggesting that we lockdown all men during darkness (even if it is just meant to demonstrate a point it is a simple way to disengage half the population) why are we not raging at the police and the government who think it is an acceptable solution to the problem to tell women to do it voluntarily?

Why is the fact that the murder of Sarah was allegedly carried out by a serving police officer not more of an issue here?

The other factor not mentioned here are the men who haven’t attacked anyone, but enjoy the feeling of power this gives them over women. I’ve seen threads on Reddit by men who enjoy walking too close to a woman in the dark to scare her. That Netflix Ripper doc talked about men in who liked to tell women that maybe they were “him” to spook them. Great fun apparently.

Why is the fact that the murder of Sarah was allegedly carried out by a serving police officer not more of an issue here?

Quite. My limited experience of the police is that they are routinely and casually violent.

The fact that the Met has, as a response to what's happened, put more police on the street is perhaps the least reassuring thing I've ever heard.

@justcannotwithyou No, not some men, men as a class. And yes, several people have argued otherwise.