Too Many Men

[JackieBeaver]

I'm feeling very sad about the Sarah Everard case. Poor poor woman. There's a lot of stories coming out now from women who have experienced feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of men with the hashtag toomanymen trending on Twitter and Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men.

We need a change! This can't go on, I'm so tired of feeling unsafe and unable to go about my business without fearing for my safety. I'm worried for my dd also

Enough is enough

@IndecentFeminist

Aren't the majority of people attacking 17-24 yr old males other makes? Still male violence 🤷

Indeed it is and it is a major issue. However, with the homicide rate for men and boys being 3 times higher than women and girls and 3/4 of homicide victims being men, acting as if male violence is only an issue for women or only an issue women can speak about is wrong.

Like many women I have been sexually assaulted by a man. Like many men, my DP has been physically assaulted by a man. Violent men are everyone's issue and using divisive language doesn't help us solve the problem.

@MAMNIL

I also feel very sad for Sarah Everard and am also concerned for the safety of my wife and daughters. Making the assumption that all men are likely to be a threat to women and need to be locked up at night is divisive and frankly offensive.

The suggestion of a 6pm curfew wasn't a serious suggestion that men should all be locked up as a precaution. It was to illustrate that many women are already under a self-imposed curfew and do not go out after dark without a chaperone for their own safety.

Let's say 1 in 1000 men attack strange women on the street, and 1 in 100,000 women do.

You're not accounting for the male on male violence in that equation.

But I don't think anyone wants a curfew. It's just a protest. It would be unenforceable long term.

@JosieJarker

If 120 people were being killed by terrorists year in year out there would be uproar. People would want something done. Nobody would be looking for excuses for why it happens or why we cant possibly do anything to stop it. Certaintly nobody would think to blame the victims. This is terrorism. Women are being terrorised and curtailed in their day to day lives by fear. Im so sick of it. The fear, the blame, the namalting. All of it makes me fucking furious.

So, what do we do? Do we actually lock them all up after dark? But then it'll happen in daylight, as it has done many times.

As I said, I am at a loss. I don't know how to fix it and it doesn't seem like anyone else knows how to stop this ever happening again either.

@MAMNIL

I also feel very sad for Sarah Everard and am also concerned for the safety of my wife and daughters. Making the assumption that all men are likely to be a threat to women and need to be locked up at night is divisive and frankly offensive.

If your reaction to the news is to piss and moan on a (predominantly) women's notice board about a woman's angry reaction to the same news, then you're a big part of the problem. Can't you see that?

[quote IJustWantSomeBees]@justcannotwithyou No, not some men, men as a class. And yes, several people have argued otherwise.[/quote]
Where? Where has anyone argued that men aren't violent at a higher rate than women?

If your reaction to the news is to piss and moan on a (predominantly) women's notice board about a woman's angry reaction to the same news, then you're a big part of the problem. Can't you see that?

Indeed, what happened to Sarah is “sad”, but a woman saying men should be under curfew on Twitter, in response to police telling women to stay home, is “offensive”. Some messed up priorities there.

I don't think it's fair to blame all men for the sake of a few psychopaths ...I'm deeply saddened by Sarah of course but all these post on social media and the news about men need to do this and that is a bit much and unfair to the majority of the men in the UK. I do think sentencing for abuse murder rape etc should be death though to set an example, rather than a pathetic 7 year sentence or whatever is that is issued currently of which they only serve half off .

Looking at murder number isn’t helpful.
It’s not just murders. Actually it’s not even about murders, even though that’s what you hear about.

It’s about rape, and all the rapes that are NEVER taken to the police.
It’s about the sexual assaults that happen all the time and just are ignore altogether.
It’s the pressure for men to have women, esp young women to agree on sexual practices they don’t really want ‘but everyone does it’.
It’s again about sexual practices where women are ALWAYS the one of is subvenaient to men’s needs and wants.
I’d say it’s actually about the fact that men always come when they have sex but women don’t always (stats are around 50% if I remember well).

Because of all those are what is making women worried and frightened. That’s what is. asking women think twice when inviting a man to their house because the question is always ‘is he going to be nice?’

So let’s stop talking about murder. This particular murder has got women talking. And that’s good. But it’s not about murders. Feeling insecure and at risk isn’t just about murder. That’s a men’s pov (because they dint get sexually assaulted, raped abused during sex etc..)

@Ammy85

I don't think it's fair to blame all men for the sake of a few psychopaths ...I'm deeply saddened by Sarah of course but all these post on social media and the news about men need to do this and that is a bit much and unfair to the majority of the men in the UK. I do think sentencing for abuse murder rape etc should be death though to set an example, rather than a pathetic 7 year sentence or whatever is that is issued currently of which they only serve half off .

So we're being too harsh on men, but we should hang some of them to set an example.

Sounds sensible enough.

Nobody is blaming all men.
Of course not all men are rapists or murderers.
But too many are.
Its more than abit unfair that all women have to be afraid or curtail their freedoms and movement through the world because of the threat that men as a class pose to our safety.

@Ammy85

I don't think it's fair to blame all men for the sake of a few psychopaths ...I'm deeply saddened by Sarah of course but all these post on social media and the news about men need to do this and that is a bit much and unfair to the majority of the men in the UK. I do think sentencing for abuse murder rape etc should be death though to set an example, rather than a pathetic 7 year sentence or whatever is that is issued currently of which they only serve half off .

For that you need a jusdice system that actually listens to women. Nit one where they are told that if they come to the police station to report a rape, their phone will be taken away, all their conversations etc.. looked at. Even. If it has no link with the rape. And btw, if we found that you have committed an offense by doing that, we will charge you too.

The system is heavily biased against women. It’s nit by going through that system that things will change.

The only way to sort this out would be to rebuild society from the ground up.
From the way that boys are brought up (not by everybody).
To the hero worship of various sports, movie, tv, comedy, music stars that get away with so much and are excused by so many people (both male and female).

And I will probably get flamed for this but also those that feel that they need to justify and empower themselves by selling their bodies and pictures on the internet.

The whole of society is royally fucked up.

I think it's arguable that women are less safe from male violence now than they were years ago, despite CCTV, etc.

Increasingly extreme porn is more readily available, resulting in normalisation of more violent sexual practices.

The "rough sex defence" is available if a man actually kills a woman during sex.

Prisons are overcrowded, so offenders spend less time in jail.

Places that used to be segregated by sex are now assumed to be segregated by gender, which is fine for trans people and less fine for women who have no way to distinguish between friendly trans women and predators.

Things are moving in the wrong direction.

Ammy85

So once again violence is the answer?

It has also been proved that the death penalty doesn't solve violent crimes.

@justcannotwithyou I said that several people have argued that men as a class are not violent i.e. the people claiming that it's only a 'few' men, not the majority, #notallmen, etc. You can read the thread yourself to find examples.

Where? Where has anyone argued that men aren't violent at a higher rate than women?

NAMALT.

@WhoWants2Know

I think it's arguable that women are less safe from male violence now than they were years ago, despite CCTV, etc.

Increasingly extreme porn is more readily available, resulting in normalisation of more violent sexual practices.

The "rough sex defence" is available if a man actually kills a woman during sex.

Prisons are overcrowded, so offenders spend less time in jail.

Places that used to be segregated by sex are now assumed to be segregated by gender, which is fine for trans people and less fine for women who have no way to distinguish between friendly trans women and predators.

Things are moving in the wrong direction.

Agreed, nowadays if a man murders a woman during sex he can literally use 'she asked for it' as a defence.

And its not just about rape and murder.
It starts with boys will be boys.
It continues with rating girls out of 10 and pinging bra straps.
Too many men cant take no for an answer.
Too many men think shouting, whistling or threatening to touch women in the street is funny.
Too many men enjoy scaring women, and far too many more are completely oblivious to the affect their presence can have on women and then get offended when its pointed out.
Too many men laugh at rape jokes even if they would never rape anyone.
And how would we even know that when 99% of rapists are out there walking around, dating, being brothers, friends and sons.

Agreed, nowadays if a man murders a woman during sex he can literally use 'she asked for it' as a defence.

Men have also used the "i tripped and fell" defence for rape and got off scot free.

The justice system when it comes to crimes against women needs a serious overhaul. Rape,harassment, stalking, assault, abuse ,murder etc. Without that , even if there is any progress to be had it will be painfully slow and limited.

[quote IJustWantSomeBees]@justcannotwithyou I said that several people have argued that men as a class are not violent i.e. the people claiming that it's only a 'few' men, not the majority, #notallmen, etc. You can read the thread yourself to find examples.[/quote]
Yes, I've argued the same. Is there any actual proof that a majority of men are violent to women? Because this thread was about just that, the violence to other men was a bit off topic, really.

To be fair, there is a point here: if (and it is a big if) the majority of men are not violent, then it is probably not fair to say 'men as a class are violent'. Otherwise, there would be a better case for saying 'men as a class are not violent', and the two can't be true.

It is certainly true to say 'men as a class are much more violent than women'.

But it's semantics. Here, it doesn't fucking matter a jot. The point is that far, far too many men are violent. And I seriously doubt the motives of those forcefully make this point. There are loads of them on this thread.

She is the Green Party. This is a silly suggestion, if only because according to the ethos of her Party all men could justdecide to self identify as women after 6pm and go out and do the same shit all over again. But this time it would be classified as female violence. Isn't political stupidity amazing?

@thedancingbear I mean going forward clearly if sentences where a lot harsher in the UK it can hopefully stop such happening.

But yes men bashing is a bit much I think and to generalise in such a way just because of few psychopaths.

justcannotwithyou

the violence to other men was a bit off topic, really.

Not if you want "men as a class" to stop being violent.