Too Many Men

[JackieBeaver]

I'm feeling very sad about the Sarah Everard case. Poor poor woman. There's a lot of stories coming out now from women who have experienced feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of men with the hashtag toomanymen trending on Twitter and Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men.

We need a change! This can't go on, I'm so tired of feeling unsafe and unable to go about my business without fearing for my safety. I'm worried for my dd also

Enough is enough

[quote Advic3Pl3as3]@MAMNIL

What I would like men like you to do is call out your friends, colleagues, acquaintances etc when they make derogatory or inappropriate sexual comments to or about women, when they make or laugh at rape jokes, when they put forward uncalled for, uninvited and unwarranted opinions on what women should and shouldn’t do, where women belong and what women should wear, when they blame female victims for being out at night/alone/wearing a skirt etc., when they make “jokes” about and to women - if the woman isn’t laughing, it’s not a joke, it’s harassment. I would like you to demand a higher standard of general behaviour and attitude towards women from your sex.[/quote]
Thank you, fair enough. Thank goodness someone is actually trying to define what's needed.

People! the call for the curfew was to get attention. And now we have everyone's attention how are we going to address the issue that women don't feel safe out on their own a lot of the time?

I'm old enough, because i was 16 or 17 at the time, how women in Leeds had a curfew imposed (eventually) when Peter Sutcliffe was murdering (initially the wrong kind of) women. Women had to stay in. Yes. The victims.

Women are routinely told to think twice about going out - men never get told not to go out, and when they get even an inkling that someone might try to curtail their freedom they lose their collective shit.

And as we know, actually, curfewing men would do 2 things most likely. a) lead to an increase in women being murdered by their partners (or beaten up or raped etc) and b) lead to fewer men being murdered because, yes, they are also murder victims but usually it's men doing it.

So really, a curfew would be doing them all a favour.

Nope it's what you are doing - coming to this thread and explaining to women why their actual LIVED EXPERIENCES are wrong - what gives you the right to do that? Oh yes - a penis!

not sure what your question was - do ask again

But surely this dreadful case hinges on the fact that a high ranking police officer may have used his position to lure her to her dreadful fate.
This case isn't about men in general, but a man in a highly trusted position.

[quote Advic3Pl3as3]@MAMNIL

What I would like men like you to do is call out your friends, colleagues, acquaintances etc when they make derogatory or inappropriate sexual comments to or about women, when they make or laugh at rape jokes, when they put forward uncalled for, uninvited and unwarranted opinions on what women should and shouldn’t do, where women belong and what women should wear, when they blame female victims for being out at night/alone/wearing a skirt etc., when they make “jokes” about and to women - if the woman isn’t laughing, it’s not a joke, it’s harassment. I would like you to demand a higher standard of general behaviour and attitude towards women from your sex.[/quote]
Unfortunately there will always be this power imbalance as the man is the stronger sex.

Men can call all that out to his friends and still stuff like this will happen. Does a man advertise that he is going to be violent?We do not live in a utopian world and I've been on many hen parties where women are derogatory to men

@ghostyslovesheets

Nope it's what you are doing - coming to this thread and explaining to women why their actual LIVED EXPERIENCES are wrong - what gives you the right to do that? Oh yes - a penis!

not sure what your question was - do ask again

Have a look back at my post if you can be bothered. At least one other person has tried to give a sensible answer.

Please could you respond with a quote where I've said that women's "actual LIVED EXPERIENCES" are wrong? Where have I said anything even approaching that, and where have I suggested that my view is more valid than yours because I'm a man?

in the early 90's I sat in the office of a senior police officer following the opening of their first Rape Suit - as part of Rape Crisis we had worked along side the police in getting up and running

This MAN stood in front of a page three calendar and proceeded to tell us that - well you know - most women make it up - 31 years later ...

@RidingOn

I don't mean to undermine the trauma caused by male violence btw, and I do think we should have a Domestic Violence Offender list as well as a Sex offender one.

I went on the Reclaim the Night march in the 1970s, and years ago I did a straw poll among all my friends to find out how many of us had been victims of male violence - sexual or otherwise. Only 1 out of about 30 women had never suffered it.

@RidingOn Absolutely agree that there should be a list of DV offenders. Being single again after years in an abusive relationship I am terrified of dating in case I find myself with another violent man.

Most women experience some form of harassment and abuse from men so you continuously shouting not all men is a) distracting from the actual argument b) contributing no solution and dismissing the women here who tell you it's not just a few men - it's a fuck of alot of them

but then you equate 2 women dying a week - rape and sexual violence with women in the Diet Coke add - minimalizing our experiences and trivialising the argument

If the answer to you question is so very pressing do ask - I couldn;t see it

Please explain in simple terms what you want ME to do about this problem

is this the question - because - and I saw the other response - is that not obvious?

also it's not my problem to solve - my sex is not the issue - yours is - you lot need to sort it

when women needed refuge - women got together, raised money, raised awareness, found buildings - set up refuges

when women needed support around rape and sexual violence - women set up rape crisis centres - staffed them , staffed the phone lines, chased the funding, volunteered their time and energy

Maybe men should take a leaf from our books

@ghostyslovesheets Funny you should say that, because all abusers feel justified in their abusive conduct.

Nobody said the fact that a large proportion of abusers were abused as children is an excuse. It's not an excuse. It's a fact.
Not all men are abusers. Not all abused children become abusers and not all women are abused by men. Most children who are abused are abused by adults, but not all adults are abusers.

The point some people are trying to make is that it's incredibly unfair to generalise an entire gender or group.

This thread is vile. Although started with genuine empathy and concern.

@Loveacoseynightin

This attitude of “it’ll happen anyway so we shouldn’t bother” is really unhelpful. If people do nothing, nothing will ever change. It’s when the collective all start chipping away that change begins. It will take generations to erode the culture and attitudes currently prevalent in society but we all have a responsibility to try, and men should be actively taking that responsibility on....to protect not just women, but their fellow man......their sons, nephews, grandsons.

We all know women are not always angels, but the statistics speak for themselves. There is a significant problem with the behaviour of men towards women. Men should be a much bigger part of the solution to solve it than they currently are.

@Loveacoseynightin

Well we don't know do we? Because it's not fucking happening. Because it's too hard, because it's impossible, because it's dangerous.

You can't say something won't work when it has never been done. When even the thought of it is shouted down and dismissed.

a joy debating but I now have to go and pick my key worker daughter up from work

I pick her up because she wont risk walking home in the dark

she was having driving lessons - we had to change instructors because of inappropriate comments made by one that made her uncomfortable - then lockdown happened

she wont take a taxi due to a bad experience with a taxi driver that made her scared and they can't guarantee a woman driver

just another day in paradise

oh and yes I will lock my car doors as soon as I get in.

@ghostyslovesheets

Most women experience some form of harassment and abuse from men so you continuously shouting not all men is a) distracting from the actual argument b) contributing no solution and dismissing the women here who tell you it's not just a few men - it's a fuck of alot of them

but then you equate 2 women dying a week - rape and sexual violence with women in the Diet Coke add - minimalizing our experiences and trivialising the argument

If the answer to you question is so very pressing do ask - I couldn;t see it

OK ghosty, since this one seems to have eluded you I'll say it again:

"Please explain in simple terms what you want ME to do about this problem? Exactly how much agency do you feel that i have, other than to treat the people around me with respect and avoid behaviours that may make a woman feel unsafe (which i already do btw). I find porn repulsive and when I see a woman in a threatening situation I do what I can to help. If there's something else I can do then please let me know, serious request."

Once more, please could you quote exactly where I've said that "it's just a few men"? You're doing your best to put words in my mouth but its not all that convincing.

[quote Ozziewoz]@ghostyslovesheets Funny you should say that, because all abusers feel justified in their abusive conduct.

Nobody said the fact that a large proportion of abusers were abused as children is an excuse. It's not an excuse. It's a fact.
Not all men are abusers. Not all abused children become abusers and not all women are abused by men. Most children who are abused are abused by adults, but not all adults are abusers.

The point some people are trying to make is that it's incredibly unfair to generalise an entire gender or group.

This thread is vile. Although started with genuine empathy and concern.[/quote]
Male violence is a problem. That is a fact that can't be denied no matter how many straw arguments you try to hide behind.

Just because you don't want to accept that, doesn't make it less of a fact.

why is stating actual facts vilifying anyone - your sex have a problem mate - sorry if women pointing that out upsets you - but its a fact.

93% of killers - Male
93.1% domestic abusers - male
80% of women experiencing harassment and abuse from MEN

you can say 'but women do ..' till your blue in the face - doesn't change the facts - male violence is an issue - your sex needs to respond

Just because you don't want to accept that, doesn't make it less of a fact

amen!

I would say that the problem may just be with men in general and not just this one policeman.

People are happy enough to tell us "not all men" or that it must be a tiny minority, who are obviously psychopaths. That doesn't add up.

It's been cited on this thread that 97% of women surveyed had been assaulted (or harassed, whichever it was)

But listen to the women on this thread who describe their experiences, and you realise that 97% of women haven't each been assaulted once or by one man.

I'm one woman. I can think of three men who have physically assaulted me. Another two who sexually assaulted me, and two more who flashed me. So 7 different men. And these weren't things that happened while I was engaging in high risk behaviour-- just regular teen/young woman's routine.

Other women's stories are the same. It's not something that happens on one occasion by one man.

So how can it be a small minority of men?

@ghostyslovesheets

Please explain in simple terms what you want ME to do about this problem

is this the question - because - and I saw the other response - is that not obvious?

also it's not my problem to solve - my sex is not the issue - yours is - you lot need to sort it

when women needed refuge - women got together, raised money, raised awareness, found buildings - set up refuges

when women needed support around rape and sexual violence - women set up rape crisis centres - staffed them , staffed the phone lines, chased the funding, volunteered their time and energy

Maybe men should take a leaf from our books

You STILL haven't answered the question. Apparently it's up to "my lot" (whatever that means) to sort this out but apparently "women only spaces" are the answer to it all. Bloody hell, I'm just confused now. Do you want me to set up a refuge and rape crisis line? What would I know about that, being a man?

yes

flashed numerous times between the ages of 7-51
man on bus sat next to me wanking - aged 16
raped - aged 4
raped - aged 17
domestic violence - 19-22
physically assaulted by a group of soldiers - aged 15
lost count of the lewd comments, threats wolf whistles etc over the years

it's not hard

MEN - are the problem - MEN need to be the solution

it's now women's job to sort this shit show out

@MAMNIL you really want to know? Fine.

You don't watch porn. Great. Do you pull up other men in your circle that to watch it? Do you make your disapproval and reasons why known?

Do you refuse to engage in any kind of sharing of derogatory/sexist memes/images/jokes and make your disapproval known?

Do you refuse to engage in "banter", sexist or rape /sexist/DV jokes, rating of women etc and make your disapproval known?

Do you refuse to excuse and minimise men's bad behaviour? From boys will be boys to it was just a joke?

Do you actively avoid name calling women, perpetuating rape myths etc?

Do you promote a healthy view of relationships and sex?

These are just a few simple things that you can do in day to day life,without much effort. Things that actually can actively cause change . Even if it starts with a small group of men. Even if it's slow going.

I can;t tell if you are being obtuse or daft

I am giving you examples where women have solved problems for them selves - now men need to sort this one out

@ghostyslovesheets I quote 'Male violence' Surely you mean 'abuse as well. Also, if you are set on clarifying things for us all, please add to your list Male prejudice is also a problem.

My goodness, if there was a guy on here judging all women in a derogatory way.......
And one final note, I am a female. I have been abused by a male, but I also know many males who are not abusers, and in fact would relish at the prospect of seeing abusers of all genders put away. I will say no more.