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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Too Many Men

512 replies

JackieBeaver · 11/03/2021 14:17

I'm feeling very sad about the Sarah Everard case. Poor poor woman. There's a lot of stories coming out now from women who have experienced feeling unsafe due to the behaviour of men with the hashtag toomanymen trending on Twitter and Green Party peer baroness Jones calling for a 6pm curfew of all men.

We need a change! This can't go on, I'm so tired of feeling unsafe and unable to go about my business without fearing for my safety. I'm worried for my dd also

Enough is enough

OP posts:
ghostyslovesheets · 11/03/2021 20:16
blackrimmedspecs · 11/03/2021 20:16

Things need to change, still the same old story, no one knows a rapist or an abuser.

mbosnz · 11/03/2021 20:17

I would suggest that the problem is 'too many women'. Too many women harassed, assaulted, abused, raped and murdered. By and large, yes, this is done by men.

I'm sure pretty much every man, most mothers of men, sisters of men, wives of men, think that their particular fellas are on the side of the angels, they're 'good blokes'. However, sadly, statistically, rather a lot of those are deluded.

DrSbaitso · 11/03/2021 20:17

@MAMNIL

If people want to use me as a lightning rod for their rage about this situation then that's fine. If my regret that women are abused on a daily basis is taken offense at, as though I'm somehow trying to negate all that with an empty apology, then that's a shame because that wasn't the intention. If the example of "diet coke break" isn't felt to be representative then so be it; its a dynamic that I've seen many times in real life so make of that what you will. I'm not sure how helpful a dogpile is in this situation but if men and women can't debate this issue sensibly then what hope is there for any of us? It seems to me that would be a better solution than grandiose statements about curfews etc.
Stop pulling the whipped puppy shtick. You talked some nonsense, tried to make the Diet Coke ad relevant and people are tearing it asunder because it was bollocks, not because you are a fall guy for us nasty women.

The curfew comment is not intended literally. It's about turning the focus to where it should be: men's behaviour, not women's. Sounds obvious, but you're blaming us for your behaviour right now.

Ozziewoz · 11/03/2021 20:20

@ghostyslovesheets You are obviously trying to wind people up for kicks. Nobody is arguing the point on statistics. The world is aware that there are more female victims. People are defending the fact that one can't associate all men with being perpetrators or a threat. FULLSTOP. Most abusers, rapists etc had very dysfunctional childhoods, or were abused themselves. It's a fact. This post has become very heavy against men. Nobody is defending the fact that more women are abused. Just the fact that it;s not all men or the majority of men.

mbosnz · 11/03/2021 20:22

Many women have also had disfunctional childhoods, and suffered abuse.

Bagelsandbrie · 11/03/2021 20:23

There is so much hatred towards women in our society it is just vile.

Younger women are objectified. Older women ignored and those in the middle ridiculed.

Even the healthcare system hates women. I belong to several chronic health forums and so many women have been fobbed off with a misdiagnosis of anxiety and given anti depressants when they have other physical (often life threatening) conditions that need the correct treatment. Women are palmed off with anti depressants instead of HRT all the time. It has to stop.

We haven’t moved on much from the times of Freud labelling every women who had something to say as neurotic and psychotic.

AnxiousAndUnraveling · 11/03/2021 20:24

So done with the ‘not all men’ argument. I think these statements sum it up for me today..

Too Many Men
Too Many Men
Advic3Pl3as3 · 11/03/2021 20:24

80% of women have experience sexual harassment in a public place. It IS the majority of men.

ghostyslovesheets · 11/03/2021 20:24

women DO associate men with threat though - ALL of you - so can you please tell me how I know which of you are the good guys?

also I was responding to another post directly not yours

I am not here for 'kicks' I am here to discuss - you find that hard - I am a woman - I have a view about the violence my sex faces daily from yours - so - what are YOU going to do about it?

also still waiting for you to show me where I was abusive :)

thedancingbear · 11/03/2021 20:24

@MAMNIL

If people want to use me as a lightning rod for their rage about this situation then that's fine. If my regret that women are abused on a daily basis is taken offense at, as though I'm somehow trying to negate all that with an empty apology, then that's a shame because that wasn't the intention. If the example of "diet coke break" isn't felt to be representative then so be it; its a dynamic that I've seen many times in real life so make of that what you will. I'm not sure how helpful a dogpile is in this situation but if men and women can't debate this issue sensibly then what hope is there for any of us? It seems to me that would be a better solution than grandiose statements about curfews etc.
We're not using you as a lightning rod, we're calling you out because you're talking dangerous nonsense.
ghostyslovesheets · 11/03/2021 20:26

I'll bite - I was abused as a child - never been an abuser

I work with young people who have been abused - I also work with young people who have abused - the latter is very much the minority - it's also NOT AN EXCUSE

MAMNIL · 11/03/2021 20:28

@ghostyslovesheets

you are not debating though - you are just saying we are wrong - that's not a debate - look at this thread properly (maybe brush that chip off) read the links and statistics posted - women face a real genuine threat on a daily basis from your sex - what are YOU going to do about it - what?
Ghosty, what I'm saying is wrong is the implied generalisation that all men are predators and therefore shouldn't be allowed out at night. Whether or not that was a serious suggestion is irrelevant; punishing the innocent along with the guilty is no answer to anything. I'm entitled to a viewpoint on this and my opinion is that it's just wrong on so many levels. Sorry if that offends anyone but it doesnt equate to a chip.

Please explain in simple terms what you want ME to do about this problem? Exactly how much agency do you feel that i have, other than to treat the people around me with respect and avoid behaviours that may make a woman feel unsafe (which i already do btw). I find porn repulsive and when I see a woman in a threatening situation I do what I can to help. If there's something else I can do then please let me know, serious request.

I suspect that the above list will trigger a flood of aggressive responses accusing me of virtue signalling. Everyone's a bit high now.

Bagelsandbrie · 11/03/2021 20:28

@ghostyslovesheets

I'll bite - I was abused as a child - never been an abuser

I work with young people who have been abused - I also work with young people who have abused - the latter is very much the minority - it's also NOT AN EXCUSE

Same here.
MAMNIL · 11/03/2021 20:30

Ah, you're back. Please explain what you mean by "dangerous nonsense"? I'm genuinely interested.

theMoJareajoke · 11/03/2021 20:30

@mbosnz

I would suggest that the problem is 'too many women'. Too many women harassed, assaulted, abused, raped and murdered. By and large, yes, this is done by men.

I'm sure pretty much every man, most mothers of men, sisters of men, wives of men, think that their particular fellas are on the side of the angels, they're 'good blokes'. However, sadly, statistically, rather a lot of those are deluded.

How many times to we see it on here?

My OH is a great dad, everyone loves him
And then they go on the describe abusive behaviour.

My husband and so many of his mates won't engage in a conversation without getting defensive.

So many men don't see that the casual use of derogatory terms, sexist jokes, memes etc as a problem.

The fact that consent has to be discussed over and over. That women are asking is this rape, is this okay? Regularly on this forum is a small snapshot of the problem.

People assume that children will be decent humans just by osmosis, that they don't have to actively have conversations about what that actually means.

Yes it does need spelling out from a very young age.

Ozziewoz · 11/03/2021 20:32

@ghostyslovesheets I quote 'so yeah women can be abusive (doesn't say if they abused men or women btw) but if you think that statistic justifies derailing a thread about male violence because 'women do it to' you are fucking deluded'

Pretty offensive.

MAMNIL · 11/03/2021 20:32

Ah, ok thanks for explaining.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 11/03/2021 20:33

[quote Ozziewoz]@ghostyslovesheets You are obviously trying to wind people up for kicks. Nobody is arguing the point on statistics. The world is aware that there are more female victims. People are defending the fact that one can't associate all men with being perpetrators or a threat. FULLSTOP. Most abusers, rapists etc had very dysfunctional childhoods, or were abused themselves. It's a fact. This post has become very heavy against men. Nobody is defending the fact that more women are abused. Just the fact that it;s not all men or the majority of men.[/quote]
The world might be aware, but it doesn't give a shit. Nothing is being done.

Men can't not engage in damaging behaviours. It's difficult.
Men can't speak out. It's dangerous.
Men can't modify their behaviour. It's impossible.
The justice system is a joke.
When it comes to rape and now even murder, everything goes. Including "she asked for it". That's if it even goes to trial.
The police ignore , dismiss and minimise reports. Tell victims that nothing can be done. Drag their heels with stalking or harassment. "He hasn't actually done anything yet".
Reporting in the media is abysmal. Perpetrators are always highlighted and the victims forgotten. It's all about the man. Most of the time with a quote about how charming, lovely, wonderful he was. What a great future/past/reputation he has. And what the victim did wrong ...she left him, he moved out, got a new partner, was out, what she was wearing, what she said etc.

Society perpetuates rape myths, and constantly focuses on policing,changing and limiting women's behaviour.

Women and children are seen as acceptable collateral damage. Hundreds and thousands abused,harmed, raped,murdered. Nothing ever changes.

The world might know,but it doesn't give a shit. That's why we're angry.

ghostyslovesheets · 11/03/2021 20:34

but you are failing to grasp that the curfew was mentioned in response to women being told to stay at home - women aren;t the problem - so why should they suffer - hence the suggestion that men should stay home - see it's called sarcasm

Do you know how womens lives are shaped by fear, threat, experience - how we limit our experiences, alter our behaviour and take on so much blame? - not really - you have male privillage - you do not know what our day to day lives are like and the choices we have to make based on the risk from MEN - we are heartily sick of it - and it's not our problem to solve - it's yours - it's your sex that's the issue find a bloody solution

I might suggest not posting on a thread mansplaining to women why they are wrong might be a good starting point

Jesus I miss Greenham - women only spaces are precious!

MAMNIL · 11/03/2021 20:34

@DrSbaitso Thanks for explaining, that's useful to know.

Advic3Pl3as3 · 11/03/2021 20:36

@MAMNIL

What I would like men like you to do is call out your friends, colleagues, acquaintances etc when they make derogatory or inappropriate sexual comments to or about women, when they make or laugh at rape jokes, when they put forward uncalled for, uninvited and unwarranted opinions on what women should and shouldn’t do, where women belong and what women should wear, when they blame female victims for being out at night/alone/wearing a skirt etc., when they make “jokes” about and to women - if the woman isn’t laughing, it’s not a joke, it’s harassment. I would like you to demand a higher standard of general behaviour and attitude towards women from your sex.

ghostyslovesheets · 11/03/2021 20:36

No Ozz - that's truthful - sorry if that hurt your feelings but the statistics are real.

ghostyslovesheets · 11/03/2021 20:37

The world might be aware, but it doesn't give a shit. Nothing is being done

also THIS in fucking SPADES

MAMNIL · 11/03/2021 20:40

@ghostyslovesheets

but you are failing to grasp that the curfew was mentioned in response to women being told to stay at home - women aren;t the problem - so why should they suffer - hence the suggestion that men should stay home - see it's called sarcasm

Do you know how womens lives are shaped by fear, threat, experience - how we limit our experiences, alter our behaviour and take on so much blame? - not really - you have male privillage - you do not know what our day to day lives are like and the choices we have to make based on the risk from MEN - we are heartily sick of it - and it's not our problem to solve - it's yours - it's your sex that's the issue find a bloody solution

I might suggest not posting on a thread mansplaining to women why they are wrong might be a good starting point

Jesus I miss Greenham - women only spaces are precious!

OK, you haven't answered my question and are now blowing the old "mansplaining" dogwhistle.
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