To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

[Incogweeto]

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

If you lie and say you chose to send her private rather than grammar when her older sister is at a grammar already, won’t you then have the problem that you chose to pay for one child but not the other?

Most grammar exams are not a pass mark but a tournament. Can’t you say it was just a tougher year with a higher pass mark?

A few months after starting grammar, my daughter came home and told me of hearing that a small number of girls hadn’t passed the 11+, and had been admitted to the school on appeal, but that their parents had never told the child. Unfortunately enough other parents had been told, and word had got out. The children in the know agreed never to tell those that hadn’t passed, but felt bad for them. To this day I don’t know whether the parents involved ever came clean.

So lie if you wish to, but in that case NEVER tell anyone else - the story will get out!

I sat the 11+ as a child. I never found out the results, my parents never told me and I never asked. They picked which school I would attend and I did that. I wouldn’t lie but she may never ask if you don’t offer the results.

I would just tell her that you will look at all the options and decide on a school based on that and you will take both her feelings but also her future into consideration (what does she want to do? Is she more into academics or art and music, does the private school offer a more rounded curriculum than the grammar? which caters more to her likes?)

When you make your decision I would say “dd we have looked at the schools and have chosen x. This is because it seems like it offers better....than y which will be better for you”. Then I’d throw her into all the excitement of the new school; uniform, friends, talk about the opportunities she’d get, look at getting new school things etc. She’ll quickly forget. You won’t have to lie and she’ll still be happy

She could find out. You might discuss the 11+ results with your friends, family, in front of the cleaner, and the truth could get back to her.

It's surely more important , to build a realtionship where honesty is encouraged even if it hurts. As she grows up, she needs to know she can trust you and share ANY disappointment/ bad news with you (no need to lie and pretend everything's OK).

Soft soaping with easy answers is the edge of a slippery slope to pretences that really damage people.  " I can't tell her  I had unprotected  sex /  we broke up/  it's cancer."

I know of people who have done exactly what the OP has and it worked perfectly. 10-year-olds don't need to know all the hard realities of life! They have plenty of time for that

Yabu.
It’s not a pass/fail exam, it is comparing students, many hothoused/tutored to this test.
Her score is all she could answer on the paper, this is all good, she wouldn’t have been considered for it if not bright, just make sure the other school is genuinely discussed regarding the positive aspects ie there are pros and cons to each.
One test on one day at one age doesn’t tell you all about a person, make sure she understands this is the method they use, if she doesn’t get in to this grammar on this method it’s not failure, it’s another school- with x,y,z good about it.
She will still have great teaching (hopefully) and sit the same exams and make friends and fulfill her potential at either.

In your situation I would lie tbh (didnt think I would say that initially reading the title)

She’s going to go to a good school regardless so no point letting her feel like a failure.

I wish I had the money for private I actually dreamt about it the other night. My kids are going to god awful schools in a god awful city.

They need all the luck in the world

I think that it's a good idea. Her whole future could otherwise be determined by her anxiety and lack of self-esteem. Maybe say as she only passed by 1 or 2 marks, you felt that private school was better?

Teacher here. You're doing her absolutely no favours by making her think she can win everything. Resilience is a quality we all need. Of course you shouldn't lie to her! I can assure you that your parenting style ends how tin a child who cannot take things not going their way and as a result are perpetual giver uppers.

OP - you know your child best, so ignore all the moralists on this thread and do what you think is best for your child.

Just be honest, one of mine failed the grammar test, she likes her current school, understands her strengths and weaknesses academically, thinks about 'what if' occasionally, it's all fine if you keep talking and stop thinking about 'failure' but rather which school would suit her, she's glad she went to a school which doesn't go at the crazy academic pace of the grammar.

As an aside, taking the 11+ isn't a life requirement it's a choice, if you choose for her to do it you have to know it's with a view to her not passing. Don't enter children for exams they couldn't stand to fail

My main point is, it’s ok to try something and if it doesn’t work out then it wasn’t necessarily wrong to try.
She could find out you lied and that would make it sound so much worse, a horrible secret! You’d never convince her then that it doesn’t really matter.

@Druidlookingidiot

If you get an 11+ coach for her, she will very likely pass. The 11+ is actually a flawed test of ability, as with coaching your score will improve.

The sign of a good test is if it's valid and reliable. The 11+ is neither.

She might well pass with coaching, I have invigilated at 11+ exams and seen kids who have been trained like thoroughbreds, some even turning up in full school uniform on a Saturday morning so they are in the right mind set. I often wondered what happened if it was a particularly strong year and the cut off mark for places as opposed to the “pass”mark was very high so even the fast runners didn’t get offered places. What a blow that must be, “You passed, but not well enough, and the GS doesn’t want you.”

Not to mention the ones who did get in on a less strong year but then floundered along finding themselves struggling and wondering why they were always in the lower streams even though they tried so hard.

Author Jacqueline Wilson 'failed' the 11+ much to the shock of her parents, teachers and friends.
However at 19 she was working for one of the UK's most famous publishers. She went on to write over a 100 books and is still writing in her 70s. She was the UK's Children's Laureate and is a Dame.
Pretty good for someone who 'failed'.

On what planet is it ok to lie 11yos because 'mother knows best'

I'm an upper KS2 teacher in a full grammar county so deal with this stuff every year.
Please don't lie to her, this will backfire. What if she wants to read the email for herself? If she really wants to go to the grammar she won't thank you for 'turning down' her place.
You need to manage her expectations and approach the test with a 'what will be, will be' attitude.

Definitely lie if you think she’ll be negatively affected by being labelled a failure at such a young age.
LOL at ‘learning resilience’. Utter bollocks.

I agree. It's a small white lie to bolster her confidence, and it certainly won't follow her around for the rest of her life like some posters are suggesting..! And it's not remotely comparable to failing GCSEs or a driving test - failure is obviously easier to explain and accept at 16 than 10. You know your child better than anybody on here, and if you think a fail would adversely affect her confidence then yes, lie. I don't fully understand the argument about her teachers knowing the truth - aren't results posted to the child's home address? How would the teachers find out her score?

I will point out that while I fully support the grammar system (I would be keen for my children to go if they seemed suited to it) I passed and absolutely HATED it. I wasn't really academically gifted and felt very out of place amongst all of my high achieving friends. Maybe she would fit in better at the private school anyway?

I would not do it.

Some people claim to be scarred from life from anything. “When I was 10 I did not pass the 11+ and I was unhappy ever after”.... nonsense!

You as a parent deal with it. No tutors, no pressure, no breathless talks with other parents about schools, but just let her sit the test, tell her it’s not a big deal as the private school is a solid plan B.

Then if she does not get in say:” well done for trying, let’s start looking at plan b”

It’s only parental handwringing that causes kids anxiety over this

You are the parent, show her the way to deal with these things

@namechangetheworld

*Definitely lie if you think she’ll be negatively affected by being labelled a failure at such a young age. LOL at ‘learning resilience’. Utter bollocks.*

I agree. It's a small white lie to bolster her confidence, and it certainly won't follow her around for the rest of her life like some posters are suggesting..! And it's not remotely comparable to failing GCSEs or a driving test - failure is obviously easier to explain and accept at 16 than 10. You know your child better than anybody on here, and if you think a fail would adversely affect her confidence then yes, lie. I don't fully understand the argument about her teachers knowing the truth - aren't results posted to the child's home address? How would the teachers find out her score?

I will point out that while I fully support the grammar system (I would be keen for my children to go if they seemed suited to it) I passed and absolutely HATED it. I wasn't really academically gifted and felt very out of place amongst all of my high achieving friends. Maybe she would fit in better at the private school anyway?

But part of confidence is learning resilience and feeling you can handle future adverse events, because you have done before. This ‘my child will only be confident if I pretend they’ve never failed at anything’ is ludicrous. That’s not breeding confidence, it’s breeding fragility and complacency.

As PP said, what if op’s daughter then insists upon going to grammar school and blames her parents eventually for not sending her there? This is madness.

We had a similar situation - dd1 very high scoring, but knew dd2 was unlikely to pass. So we basically prepared her from year 5 that she was going elsewhere, and she didn’t even sit it. We just said all along that the alternative school would be far better for her - which was true, as who wants to struggle in the grammar? Far better to do well at the alternative school.
We worried at first that we were letting her down by not even giving her the option to sit it - but in reality I don’t think it would have done her any favours to see her sister’s mega high score, compared to her distinctly average one! She has many other skills that are better suited to where she is now, and sounds like you’re in the same situation. Every child is so different, just sell it as ‘this school is perfect for your sister, and this one is perfect for you’ and don’t bother with the exam. Lying is never a good idea - she’ll find out one day (or demand to go to the grammar, and then you’re in a pickle)
Good luck and I bet she’ll thrive at the other school.

Teaching resilience and that you need to confront failure in life is really important. Don't lie to your child, you will cause more problems.

My DD does a lot of performing arts at a high level. 99% of the time the result is rejection. We have had situations with months of hard work, round after round of auditions, huge investment from the child both emotional and in terms of practice, classes, work on scripts/songs etc, only to fail at the final hurdle - and often because wrong height/wrong hair colour/just not quite right rather than not being capable. It really, really hurts to have dreams taken away, to know that you weren't what they wanted or weren't good enough.

My DD has faced so much rejection over the last 5 years that she values the successes even more, and knows that you cannot let yourself be defined by a single outcome and that you have to have a good sob, then pick yourself up and put 100% into the next opportunity. We all tell her that when one door shuts, another door will open that will be the right one for her.

As a parent it's grim having to give disappointing news, but it's how we frame it that is really important. If you don't make it into a disaster or a failure then they will take the right lessons away from it.

I have to say, the number of posts on here justifying bad parenting choices by saying their child ‘lacks confidence’ amazes me. Which child is 100% well adjusted and doesn’t have any negative feelings ever? It’s getting out of hand and we’re going to end up with a generation of quite weak, dependent, incompetent adults.

Or that they are less capable than their older sibling

You can't shield your child from having different strengths from their siblings or peers. If you do you build a snowflake ❄. A child who has never developed the resilience to deal with and learn from disappointment or failure and come out stronger. A child confused why they find the work in private school so hard when they were capable of passing the same exam for grammar their sibling did, confused/resentful why their parents won't let them go to the school they want to go to.

You need to help her either know she needs to work harder academically to achieve results others might find easier and being a grafter will stand her in good stead for the future, or help her to find, develop and celebrate her own strengths.

She will know the truth and that you have lied to her. The act of you lying about it will make her feel far worse about not getting a qualifying score.