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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

660 replies

Incogweeto · 10/03/2021 12:01

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

OP posts:

RantyAnty · 10/03/2021 13:38

why are you just assuming she'd fail?
You've already labeled the child as not as good.

There are quite a few months until the exam. Hire a good tutor to ensure she passes. Passing a test is a matter of knowing how the test works, how to take tests, and studying the material.

Viviennemary · 10/03/2021 13:38

Why don't you move go an area with better schools. Don't tell her she's passed if she hasn't. If she finds out it would be a real betrayal of trust.,.

SageMist · 10/03/2021 13:39

I thinks it's really important to teach our kids how to handle failure. So no, I wouldn't lie.

Mumofsend · 10/03/2021 13:39

Where i live not all the kids who pass get a space and they operate a waiting list. Maybe just say she passed but is on the wait list so

Mrsbrownsgargoyle · 10/03/2021 13:40

And if she fails, hates the private school and begs to move to the grammar when she hears the triplets in her year group are leaving?

ElMacchiato · 10/03/2021 13:41

Don't lie. She probably won't believe it and will wonder why her sister is at the grammar and not her.
If you're thinking she won't get in don't put her in for the test.

I disagree with selection at 11 anyway. Mainly because of the damage it can cause to self-esteem. Shocked that a pp is saying kids need to get used to failure young!

wheresmycrown · 10/03/2021 13:41

I wouldn't lie either. There are ways of giving news and giving the honest news gently would be the way to go.

She might be disappointed and upset but that is a natural reaction for failing something. You learn resilience by taking the rough with the smooth. Telling her the truth and reiterating your love and support for her and giving her the alternative options are a good thing to do.

chipshopElvis · 10/03/2021 13:42

Don't be daft. Tell her. My son failed, we told him that we were really proud of him for having a go. He loves his current school and is fine with it now. He is not a particularly resilient child and desperately wanted to go to one particular grammar. Failure is part of life.

bendmeoverbackwards · 10/03/2021 13:46

Love the ‘just move house’ comment 🙄

Is it so black and white as pass/fail? Round here, there is no pass mark as such, the cut off mark for a place varies from year to year.

I would avoid using the word fail. Let her sit the test and see how she does.

viques · 10/03/2021 13:46

What next? You fake letters saying she has passed her GCSEs and AL? you get her a fake drivers licence?

If you want her to go privately then that’s the story you sell her and that is what you focus on. Not some malarkey about passing her 11+ well enough to be offered a place but not choosing the GS after all. And don’t you think all her friends will know exactly what their 11+ marks were and compare them and know exactly what the cut off mark for offers is? As will their parents.......

If you start this lie it won’t be one lie you are telling to your daughter, you will be repeating it to lots of people , friends, family, school parents, do you think you can maintain it.

diddl · 10/03/2021 13:46

So if she passes you would send her, if she doesn't she would go to the private school?

So there is a back up plan in place & there's no great pressure for her?

If she wants to go to the grammar won't she question it/be resentful if you tell her she passed but you won't send her-even though you sent her sister?

randomer · 10/03/2021 13:47

Where to start with this one? have you visited the failing state schools? have you and your daughter attended any "open days" there? Does she have any friends who go there?

Why is being less academic than her sibling matter? Will she and indeed the sibling change....will their abilities and aptitudes change with time?

Why on earth would you model lying as a way of being?

Anecdotally, we live in a Grammar school area. My child was deemed to have additional needs and lack concentration so we decided between us he wouldn't take the 11 plus. On arrival at Secondary school, the CATs score was one of the highest they had ever seen.
Its all nonsense.

bendmeoverbackwards · 10/03/2021 13:48

Also OP if you think she has a chance of getting in and is keen on a place, do some preparation if you aren’t doing so already. The 11+ forum is a good source of information

rossclare · 10/03/2021 13:50

@Ifailed

Bully for you for being wealthy enough to pay for the lie, all the kids from normal homes can just suck up being labelled thick.

What a horrible comment!

Wondermule · 10/03/2021 13:52

@viques

What next? You fake letters saying she has passed her GCSEs and AL? you get her a fake drivers licence?

If you start this lie it won’t be one lie you are telling to your daughter, you will be repeating it to lots of people , friends, family, school parents, do you think you can maintain it.

This really made me laugh for some reason 😂 it could be the basis of a plot where the child is arrested at work as an adult for posing as a dentist or something... genuinely believing they are qualified to do it...

Druidlookingidiot · 10/03/2021 13:52

If you get an 11+ coach for her, she will very likely pass. The 11+ is actually a flawed test of ability, as with coaching your score will improve.

The sign of a good test is if it's valid and reliable. The 11+ is neither.

JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson · 10/03/2021 13:54

@VintageStitchers

Definitely lie if you think she’ll be negatively affected by being labelled a failure at such a young age.

LOL at ‘learning resilience’. Utter bollocks.

I previously worked in HE for many years and I’ve lost count of the number of bright capable mature students who tell me they failed the 11+ and felt so demoralised that they stopped trying. They only came back into learning at a later date, mostly by chance.

There is a third option, which is not to enter her. Better still, to give her some ownership of the situation, explain to her the possible outcomes and let her decide whether to take the test, knowing that she might not pass.

I sympathise with the situation, though. I grew up in a grammar county and it’s a significant part of the reason why I didn’t return there to bring up my own family.

HowlingGale · 10/03/2021 13:55

Children need to learn resilience. If you smooth over the cracks and make everything easy for her, how is she going to learn how to cope on her own in later life? It's really important that we don't act as snow plough parents, pushing all potential obstacles out of our childrens way so they have a smooth passage in life. They have to learn with life's ups and downs and if you do everything for them then they will be deprived of that opportunity to learn. And part of that is learning to deal with failure, tough as it is.

TableFlowerss · 10/03/2021 13:57

@Druidlookingidiot

If you get an 11+ coach for her, she will very likely pass. The 11+ is actually a flawed test of ability, as with coaching your score will improve.

The sign of a good test is if it's valid and reliable. The 11+ is neither.

This! If you spend money on extra private tutoring for a year or two, she probably will pass if she’s at least average.

It shouldn’t be like that mind....

Soubriquet · 10/03/2021 13:57

No don’t lie to her

If she really wants to go to grammar school she’s going to be pissed that you “decided” it wasn’t good enough for her

Your other dd will be pissed that grammar school is “good enough” for her and not private

LimitIsUp · 10/03/2021 13:58

I think I overprotected my dd too much when younger, and now at 18 she's not that great at dealing with life's slings and arrows.

If it was my dd and she didn't pass I would reassure her that she was very capable of passing and certainly bright enough, but that we all have an off day sometimes and that is all it was. I would also say that you have another school in mind for her which is going to be a good fit for her

funinthesun19 · 10/03/2021 13:58

What if your financial situation changes, you now can’t afford the private school, she has to go to the state school, and she asks you all of the inevitable questions about why you didn’t just send her to the grammar in the first place seeing as her sister goes there?

Too risky in my opinion. But then I don’t have the same “options” as you financially and therefore probably don’t know what I’m talking about. I know in your position though, I would be honest with my child about their results and just pay for the private school. I don’t see why the lie is necessary.

YouokHun · 10/03/2021 13:58

Lying is such a bad idea. Someone else will tell her for sure and then she’ll really be questioning herself. Far better to lay the ground work for either outcome by demonstrating a flexible philosophy about both schools so that she sees wherever she ends up as the best option for her and not second best. Also failure is important and we need to practice early the art of picking ourselves up and carrying on.

I am in an 11+ area and I have come to loathe it, it’s such a narrow test of ability on one day, no chance for the child with potential who will blossom later. I know there are many alternatives to grammar school but it can feel catastrophic at that age, especially if the parents can’t contain their disappointment. I know this cartoon has been wheeled out many times but it really says it all:

To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

LimitIsUp · 10/03/2021 13:59

@Ifailed

Bully for you for being wealthy enough to pay for the lie, all the kids from normal homes can just suck up being labelled thick.

This was a very twatty and chippy remark by the way

m0therofdragons · 10/03/2021 13:59

I wouldn’t but I’d focus on her skills. Dd1 is extremely academic but dd2 and 3 have such amazing people skills that dd1 struggles with. I remember my parents talking about what they would do if I didn’t get into the grammar (db went to grammar and was obviously the “clever” one). It really affected my confidence. Db was an A* pupil and I was an A grade student. Nothing I ever did was good enough even when I passed the 11+.

Deal with it with honestly and love.

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