To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

[Incogweeto]

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

No, I don't think it's a good idea to lie. I have dc with a mixed range of abilities and we don't talk about passing and failing. We talk about trying their best and that exams are to show how much you have learnt and remembered at the time.

FWIW I took my 11+, went to secondary modern school and then to university where I graduated with a 2:1 honours degree, the same result as my sibling who went to the grammar.

No. Failing is part of life, it’s how we grow and evolve, and develop resilience. And failing things when you’re young is good experience for when you get older too. You’re not helping her to grow by shielding her from things like this.

It’s hard when children fail or don’t quite meet the mark, but it’s also an opportunity to teach them that they are not defined by exam results, their life isn’t over because they didn’t do well in a test and there are alternative avenues etc.

YABVU - you need to think about how you frame testing, success and failure. If she doesn't learn reilience now it will be much harder as an adult.

Personally I would not use the word fail, it's so negative. I'd say something about falling short of the required marks on the day etc but I wouldn't lie.

I failed and it spurned me in to do super well at my failing

Honestly is best policy you could lie and say she missed it by a tiny margin ? Will private accept her they usually need exceptional results to stay open

I don’t think you need to lie, she may well pass but not be in the top 150 or whatever the number who actually get offered places is. My parents told my brother that he had passed but that they didn’t have enough places for everyone who passed to get one. This was true and he accepted it easily

hm its hard. I told my DD she passed her sats as I was also worried it would crush her. She really badly failed them and she was put in the lowest pathway at school. Shes been asking me why shes in the lowest pathway eversince. I had no idea they made such a big deal about those stupid pathways.

Surely if she really had both options you would consult her about her thoughts , what if she loves the grammar school more and asks to go there?

A few knocks and dips in life's path are good for developing resistance

I don't think it's a good idea OP. My DS is very sensitive, and I've told him we will go to the right school for him. If it's grammar or private, he knows that the school he gets into will be the right school for him personally. I think they are old enough to learn these things (and a good way to part some useful lessons on life!).

@ladygindiva

Personally I would not use the word fail, it's so negative. I'd say something about falling short of the required marks on the day etc but I wouldn't lie.

Yet everyone's happy to cheer and Whoop if their children pass! Anyone who wishes to engage with this kind of selection is by default engaging with rejection! The Grammar school system is predicated upon rejecting the majority of applicants

I don't think it is pass/fail anyway, don't you just get a mark and whether it is competitive depends on the cohort?

Just say she did well, but this year was a very strong cohort. You can't protect them all their lives, they have to understand that people have strengths and weaknesses and a poor result in 11+ does not define her. Everyone fails something at some point and resilience is an essential life skill.

Agree that the sister may resent her private school education or she may resent you choosing for her if you lie.

If it really bothers you, just don't apply to the grammar.

I didn't pass but went on to get a 1st class degree. It's not a life determiner. Be honest with her, but be prepared to build her confidence about how unimportant it is the grand scheme of things.

Its the kind of thing that comes out in years to come. I wouldn't. How would you hold up in later years if she ends up hating the school and blaming you 'i passed but you refused to send me there', or she asks to move to the school later.

I wouldn’t lie to her about something like this. Just be upfront with her from the start, it’s ok if she dosnt pass, it dosnt mean she’s not clever, very smart people fail exams all the time. Everyone is different and where as one person may do really well at one thing they may not do well in others.

My DCs know and understand this at nearly 7 & 9, my 9 yo is very good at a lot of things, athletic, academic, arts, maths & science but my 7yo struggles a lot (waiting to be tested for dyslexia), she understands what it means as I have dyslexia and struggled badly at school, but it dosnt make me or her stupid. She regularly wins family games & quiz nights. She’s very arty, loves drama, dancing and extremely social, can make friends where ever she goes, very much an extrovert compared to her older sister. They understand they are 2 totally different people and won’t always do the same things. This is already something they do, one dose lots of sports clubs & gymnastics while the other dose drama classes. We’ve recently moved and looking at new schools they very much wanted to go to different schools.

Preparing her upfront is better than lying to her.

Ips unless your daughter scored zero on her sats she did not fail them. It isn't pass or fail. It's a score.

Why make her go through sitting the 11+? I'd be telling her that the private is best for her and only have her sit the private school exam.

If she really wants to go to the grammar school then I think you need to prepare her for the possibility that she won't pass. Or even if she does pass isn't it the case that she's not guaranteed to get in? (don't know - no GSs round here)
Personally I think your best bet is to keep fingers crossed but big up the number 2 choice, which is likely to be private and very nice by all accounts. I remember falling out with my parents over going to high school - I won in the end (state comp). I can't imagine my parents having 'decided' where I was going to go.

One set of parents asked the Y6 teacher at the Easter parents' meeting for the school to tell the child that tlhe had got 5s in all their KS2 SATs (which he had not taken at that point and in which Level 3 was the more likely outcome).

The teacher's first shocked response was to say that the child would realise when they got the results sheet. 'Please make an alternate results sheet and let us know the real results by phone'. Er, no.

'We want him to feel like he is always a winner' the parents explained.

Quite apart from the practicalities (eg. the secondary school then set for Y7 on the SATs results - how were they planning on explaining set 5 or 6 to their Level 5 son?), it made sense of this child's social difficulties - unable to sustain friendships unless their game was chosen, bursting into tears and stomping off whenever they weren't winning- and their lack of resiliance and perseverance in lessons. 'I don't like this. I can't do it. Can I do X instead?

Do you cheat so that your child wins at games too, OP? I am assuming you would be appalled by my story, but it is not that massive a leap from what you are proposing.

Please do think again - work with your child to develop her resilience and internal self-worth, and prepare her for the potential options, opportunities and setbacks she will inevitably face in her life.

Give her a secure grounding in love , acceptance and reality so that she has somewhere to come to talk through her concerns and fears. Don't teach her to be ashamed of who she is, because that could be the message she hears from your actions if she finds out about the lie.

Absolutely agree with this OP. You are thinking of your daughter and I would do exactly the same

Definitely lie if you think she’ll be negatively affected by being labelled a failure at such a young age.

LOL at ‘learning resilience’. Utter bollocks.

I previously worked in HE for many years and I’ve lost count of the number of bright capable mature students who tell me they failed the 11+ and felt so demoralised that they stopped trying. They only came back into learning at a later date, mostly by chance.

So you’d rather she’s disappointed/angry with you for choosing a school she doesn’t want to go to, when as far as she knows she could go to the grammar that she wants to go to? Strange choice IMO.

@AlexaShutUp

No. The one thing that I wish my parents had done for me when I was younger was to help me learn how to fail. To accept it as an inevitable part of trying different things and living life to the full, and to realise that it really isn't the end of the world when it happens. Perhaps if they had done that, I wouldn't fear failure so much to the extent that I rarely try things unless I'm reasonably sure of success.

I've actively sought out opportunities for my dd to fail from an early age. Not always easy as she tends to be good at everything she tries, but by constantly pushing her outside of her comfort zone, we have found ways of allowing her to experience failure in a healthy way. I'm so glad that we did, as she is totally unfazed by it and she will have a go at anything. She understands that it's just as much a failure if you don't try at all as it would be if you tried and didn't succeed - more so, actually. I wish I could have gone through life like that.

We do our children no favours by protecting them from failure. Much better to just accept it and model a healthy approach to it. Don't make it into something so awful that you can't even tell her about it. If she doesn't get into the grammar, no big deal - there is another great school that she can go to instead.

@AlexaShutUp firstly this is an outstanding user name you have 😆😆 also, I totally agree with your advice. Failing at things sometimes is part of life unfortunately.

Don’t lie to her. We need to start teaching our children some resilience ffs. If she can’t handle the idea of failing, don’t make her sit it.

No that's a terrible idea. If you don't think she'll pass, don't put her through it in the first place.

Do not lie to her, that will impact your future relationship and her ability to trust you. I echo what others say about dont let her sit it, just send her to the private school. I don't understand people who put their children in for 11+ when they know they will not pass.