To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

[Incogweeto]

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

She's already extremely privileged top be able to have the option of private school. Why would you lie to her. IME, and this is no criticism, private education already affords pupils the opportunity to believe anything is possible and that they never fail. Just tell her the bloody truth, in the nicest way.

Not everyone is good at everything and the sooner we learn that in life the better.

It is really really important that children learn to be resilient so they can reach for their best, not assume they are the best even when they're not.

Don't lie to her. It would be terrible if she found out - partly because she will have thought her achievement was better than it was but also because she will learn her dm thinks she is too fragile to be told the truth about her performance. How will she ever trust any praise you ever give her again?

If you make her take the eleven plus and she fails you should tell her. Failing is a normal part of life. Alternatively, as you are lucky enough to have the option, put her straight into the fee paying school.

OK my opinion is this
If you are the kind of person that hordes paperwork from these kind of things (many are) you have to consider the morbid point of when you come to pass away and she has to go through the paperwork etc and finds out she failed and you lied to her all her life that's pretty horrific. Either be honest with her or don't let her sit the 11+ you say now there's no way she will ever find out but she will and the betrayal she will feel will be immense. If she fails a test designed the same for all children regardless of their academic abilities then so be it, failing it isn't the end of the world and she will get over it. What she won't get over is her parents lying to her.

As AnotherEmma stated
"it's an important opportunity for her to learn that "failure" is ok, it's part of life, it's not a reflection of her worth or abilities, and she can still succeed if she takes a different path" you are not protecting her, only depriving her of the opportunity to grow stronger, with your encouragement

Ridiculous idea. Can't base her life on a lue. Also if you pay fees for one not the other it can be justified if other child is at grammar school but if you say she passed but have decided to pay fees the other child may resent the decision for the rest of their life. Be an adult and honest. Later in life the other child may expect additional financial help if you spend on one and not the other it is much more accepted if other child known not to have passed.

I think that if you lie, she will eventually find out and may feel betrayed. Not worth the risk.

It depends on how badly she does if she really does badly and you pop her of to private school won’t she struggle ? Or aren’t you bothered and are you going to maintain the lie with everyone for ever ?

I told my children the 11+ is not pass or fail but a test giving a score that tells you which schools you can choose from. We had the same dilemma with local state secondaries. Some parents tutored extensively and a few succeeded in getting to grammar but struggle and have paid tuition support still.
I was fortunate my eldest children passed and are happy in grammar.
I wouldn’t have lied.
Sadly life is full of tests exams passes fails and as a parent I feel it’s better to raise your child to be resilient and able to cope when things don’t go according to plan.

Ordinarily I would never advocate lying, let alone to your own child, but I worked with a woman whose husband had failed his 11+ and boy did the damage of that run deep! His siblings passed, so yes there was a huge inferiority complex and golly he was bitter. His bitterness bled into his wife and kids, very unpleasant to witness. The phrase ‘chip on the shoulder’ just didn’t cover it, the whole family were weighed down with resentment and they attributed everything back to him not going to Grammar school!

Personally I believe the 11+ should be banned. Kids have enough pressure when they are older and sure as hell don't need it right now during a pandemic that has shocked the entire world. I worked at a junior school and heard the kids discussing their mock results, heard the tears of the kids who "failed" and the mockery of the kids who had passed. It was awful.

My sister passed her 11+ and attended grammar school. I didn’t get into the same school and I have never had any bad feelings about that whatsoever. My parents handled our situation cautiously to make sure I understood that not getting into the school did not mean I was ‘less than’.
I was told that competition for places was high and that, although I passed the test, my score wasn’t as high as others’ so I did not get in. Come to think of it... I wonder whether that was true

@HandyGirl76

My son just failed his, it's destroyed him and he's upset about it. His school is shocked as he's very bright and academic but apparently he raced through it and finished 15 mins early so clearly doesn't yet grasp exam technique.

I digress, the system sucks and shouldn't be there. Having seen my son's reaction I would lie, lie and lie again if I could have the time over. I'm not sure he'll ever feel confident academically.

Thanks that's really interesting to hear your perspective but I'm really sorry that your son is so sad right now.

The technique is such a big part of it isn't it.

@Carpedimum

Ordinarily I would never advocate lying, let alone to your own child, but I worked with a woman whose husband had failed his 11+ and boy did the damage of that run deep! His siblings passed, so yes there was a huge inferiority complex and golly he was bitter. His bitterness bled into his wife and kids, very unpleasant to witness. The phrase ‘chip on the shoulder’ just didn’t cover it, the whole family were weighed down with resentment and they attributed everything back to him not going to Grammar school!

Yikes! That's a bit scary isn't it.

She has a preference for the grammar school but would be fine with the other one so I'm not worried about her resenting it or finding out. Just the morality of it I guess.

@roxanne119

It depends on how badly she does if she really does badly and you pop her of to private school won’t she struggle ? Or aren’t you bothered and are you going to maintain the lie with everyone for ever ?

I can't imagine it's something that we will talk about 'forever' or with many people. When my DD1 got her incredibly high 11+ score we asked her not to talk about it outside the family in case other people had done the 11+ and might feel badly if they hadn't achieved that score.

I don't think she'll struggle at the private as it's not academically selective and they are so spoonfed.

@Aghhhhhhhhhh

OK my opinion is this If you are the kind of person that hordes paperwork from these kind of things (many are) you have to consider the morbid point of when you come to pass away and she has to go through the paperwork etc and finds out she failed and you lied to her all her life that's pretty horrific. Either be honest with her or don't let her sit the 11+ you say now there's no way she will ever find out but she will and the betrayal she will feel will be immense. If she fails a test designed the same for all children regardless of their academic abilities then so be it, failing it isn't the end of the world and she will get over it. What she won't get over is her parents lying to her.

There's no paperwork - it's an online portal, so there's no papertrail. Awful to think people find skeletons when they're clearing out their parent's things though! I do take your point though.

@Yebanksandbraes

I think if you prepare your daughter well enough OP, she will be able to cope with any outcome. I explain to my kids that they are all really smart, but that you can be smart in slightly different ways. I also explain that I know they are smart because teachers have told me, because I can tell by talking to them (you can give examples here of clever things they've said/done/achieved). However, one exam doesn't always capture that. You can be the smartest person in the world but sometimes bad luck on the day means that you don't get a mark that represents you. You might accidentally miss a question, you might misunderstand or misread a question etc. Usain Bolt could trip up one race and come last but we would all still know he is super fast at running! If your DD2 is sensitive then a big part of this may be that she feels the exam results would label her or that YOU might think less of her if she were to fail. Firstly don't call it "failing" just refer to "entry requirements" and assure her she would meet the entry requirements for many, many schools. Secondly, tell her very clearly that you KNOW her to be smart. That is a fact to you and no test result will ever change that. If she gets below the entry requirements she has still done really well and you still love her just as much, in fact you love her MORE for coping with these knockbacks we all get in life. Remind her that no matter how smart or kind or talented we are, sometimes things don't turn out the way we want. However, you still love her and believe in her and know she will be a success at school and in life. I know you want to protect her but please don't lie to her about this. Please do everything you can to prepare her, protect her and be honest with her. It's tough being a parent, but you sound great and I think you will be able to get the right balance in the end.

I love this, especially: Usain Bolt could trip up one race and come last but we would all still know he is super fast at running!

I'm definitely using that (not necessarily for this situation but to talk to my children about exam outcomes!) Thank you.

@dejacqueray

Surely SHE should have some say in which school she goes to????

We've done all the tours together and she has expressed her opinions but we as parents will decide.

I dont think you should lie to your daughter. My sister passed the 11 plus I didnt but I went to a private school where the class size was much smaller than the secondary modern . I did well in my career I never for once thought I was stupid just that i didnt understand the rules relating to exams . Indeed that failure focused my mind to achieve

Yet again, the OP's DD is not heading towards a crap secondary modern. In the old days, passing the 11+ could be really life-changing. There was such a massive difference between grammar schools and secondary moderns, and only the grammar schools led to good jobs and careers. That's absolutely not the case anymore, and in any event the OP's DD will be going to a nice private school. So there's no way that she'll feel the pain felt by people who failed the 11+ in the old days. It's the mother, I assume, who's got the DD hyped up about this. Most parents don't even bother to enter their bright children for the test and prefer to send them to the nearest school with their friends.

@TeddingtonDad

"It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up."

While few of our consciences are without a stain or two of concealed untruth, please don't underestimate the positive value of avoiding lies, especially ones which must be maintained.

And I don't want to upset you but you have already failed to maintain the lie. While it's perhaps UNLIKELY that anyone reading this now or in FUTURE will know who you or your DD are, it is by no means IMPOSSIBLE.

I've changed some details. But I get your point. Easier to tell the truth, for sure! Nothing to trip you up that way.

I would be honest, I’d worry lying about it would show her that there is something to be ashamed of.

@Cuesday

OP - is there any possibility that you want to do this, at least in part, for you? Do you want to be able to say to family, friends and neighbours that both your children passed the test? You must know that the great, great majority of children don't take / pass the test. Loads of bright children will be in the same position. Unlike your DD, they will be going to the crap state schools. You really need to get a grip.

No, it's really not for me. I wouldn't tell anyone apart from my husband. Only one other person at her school is taking the test and I don't know the family. I can't imagine why my neighbours would be interested! My family live in another country and have no idea what it even is. It's purely so a 10 year old doesn't feel like she's a failure. As others have recounted on here, it can have a long-term effect.

Lying will usually come round to bite you on the arse...

I think it’s better to prepare the ground that 11+ is not everything, everyone is different and big up her many gifts and talents.

@MumW

Have you actually been around the 'failing' state schools? If you go with an open mind, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I looked around the 'failing' school when DD2 went up and was really impressed. Loads of money had been thrown at it and it was very much on the up. We did decide against it because she would've been the only one from her primary school to go. She ended up at the school DD1 was at which was supposed to be 'the school' to go to. Almost immediately it was taken over by an Academy and the standards feel very rapidly. DD2 got top GCSE results inspite of it but only because she was highly motivated and took it upon herself to download the exam papers and studied the marking schemes.

The statistics and Ofsted reports may tell a story but not necessarily the whole story.
Talk to parents who have DC of similar abilities at the state schools.

Yes and there is no way I'd send my children there. I'd sooner deregister her.

I'm reading every single response and am thinking about it a lot. Thank you for all of the input, I really do appreciate it.