To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

[Incogweeto]

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

Are you going to potentially lie about every test result, GCSE and assessment that she will take in the future too, just because she may get lower results than her sister? Praise her efforts whatever the result, she will obviously know her sister is potentially more academic than her at this stage

If she asks you tell her the truth, but if she doesn’t don’t make an issue of it. Plenty of people fail the 11+ and go to University or do well for themselves.

So if she fails future exams, how will she cope? I think you need to keep it real and tell her she can only do her best and that in turn will help with your decision-making process! It would not be healthy lying to her!

I would definitely tell her she was close (even if she wasnt) and not let her get too downhearted. Normally I'd say no but after this last year she doesn't need another thing to upset her or make her feel sad. To tell her that she did pass it if she was nowhere near might make her feel a bit complacent and like she doesn't have to try hard going forward.

I'm still vaguely bitter about my 11 plus at the grammar school my brother was at (out of town, approx 15 miles away). When he took his in the early 90's there weren't too many children at the school and it had only started taking kids from outside the catchment area the year he tried. He was clever so he got in easily.

By the time it came to me to take mine 4 years on, it was more known. I passed and had a high grade that, if we were in the catchment area would have gotten me in no problem. They had to offer those with lower grades but in the catchment area and only had a smaller percentage for 'out of town' students . Blah.

I actually believe that failing early on allows us to become more resilient adults. Children shouldn't be afraid to fail, on the contrary they should see it as a positive moment to re-evaluate. It's sufficient to look at the current student room threads to see how unprepared for, and disorientated some of the overprotected 18 year olds are after rejection from their Uni choices.
Having said that, I would most definitely help my DD prepare for the exam, and then if the worst comes to pass, you can say that you as well share in the hiccup. That is all it will be. If you're fortunate to have a backup plan she'll soon get over it, especially if you can emphasise her other qualities, including the incredibly mature way she handles set backs.
Today's children already find it difficult to develop a work ethic. They don't have to go to the library and plough through books to find information, internet has given instant access which is great, but we've created a generation which is frustrated when they don't get instant success and do incredibly badly in handling stress. Most schools won't do sports days where there are winners and losers, won't rank a child's position in a class, but unfortunately the adult world does and today's children are incredibly unprepared. Your DD2 is not DD1 and she undoubtedly has qualities that DD1 lacks, and vice versa. Maybe DD1 would gain in being allowed to shine at her grammar school if you do have to find another solution for DD2.
All things to consider maybe.

Personally I think it’s a bit sick to set up a lifetime lie to a child about an exam result.

@Nightbear

What about your DD1? If you tell your DD2 that you’re choosing to pay ££££ to send her to a private school even though she has a place at the grammar school her sister goes to, how will it make your DD1 feel?

It’s a tricky situation but at least you can be thankful that you’re in a position (financially) where you know your DD2 will be going to a good good school whatever her results. The system is broken when the state options are a selective grammar or failing high secondary schools.

I was just going to raise this. It’s a tricky one with DD1, how would she feel? Would you expect her to be in on the lie too? It could cause you real problems.

YWBU to lie about the results.
If DD2 is desperate to go the Grammar, then she needs to work hard to prepare.
Otherwise, just don't enter her, and concentrate on prep for the private school.
I knew that both of mine would 'fail' the 11+, but DP insisted on tuition, which was expensive and made them both miserable. Even if they'd got to the local Grammar, they would have struggled.

Don't lie to her. I have 2 DCs at a grammar school and they are basically exam factories. Huge emphasis is placed on grades and exam results, and it turns them into exam-passing machines. Little emphasis seems to be placed on attaining a love of learning, or wanting a deeper/richer learning experience. Instead, they're endlessly boot camped in exam techniques and can dissect an exam paper with surgical precision. It's a very cold, calculated, cheerless approach to learning. Now, that's fine if you are naturally academic and need little in the way of support and can keep up (and you're very much expected to just keep up).

OP if your daughter is quite a thoughtful, gentle soul who has a perfectly normal level of academic ability (but not grammar school level) then the private school really would be the far better environment for her.

"It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up."

While few of our consciences are without a stain or two of concealed untruth, please don't underestimate the positive value of avoiding lies, especially ones which must be maintained.

And I don't want to upset you but you have already failed to maintain the lie. While it's perhaps UNLIKELY that anyone reading this now or in FUTURE will know who you or your DD are, it is by no means IMPOSSIBLE.

It's all done online. We get the score through a portal (with password etc). We don't get a letter.

But, again, what if she wants to see the message? Or asks you to print it off for her?

Don’t lie. It will come back and bite you on the bum. Always be honest with kids

OP you sound like you have two intelligent, capable and lovely children, they must bring you so much joy.

Personally, I think you would do more damage to your DD2 by lying to her and breaking the trust bond between you, than dealing with any potential fallout from not passing the 11+. FWIW I failed mine, I was disappointed I didn’t get into the all girls grammar school at the time but it was soon forgotten and I certainly didn’t feel like a failure because it was bloody hard and I tried my best.

You've outlined one of the problems with this selective system. It labels huge numbers of children 'failures'. So damaging. No wonder the state schools are so awful; everyone is opting out for something they perceive to be better, leaving the state schools as sink schools.

You won’t forget and you will keep thinking about the time you lied to your daughter. It will grind you down and possibly alienate her. If you know you won’t tell her the truth then don’t put her thru the test. Ps. Won’t she want to read the letter anyway

How do we ever teach our children resilience if you shield them from every bad feeling??

OP i can see why you want to protect your daughter but I think this is a terrible idea. I think it is disrespectful to lie to your daughter - a big lie that you are going to have to keep up for the rest of your life. It could be very damaging if she found out and I just wouldn't risk it.. Learning to fail is an important life lesson and it is a good way of building up resilience - you won't always be there to rescue her. And of course she might pass!

If its any help my daughter took and failed the 11+. We had just moved to the area where we are in the fortunate position of having a good choice of state schools and grammar schools. I didn't really want her to take the exam as we had literally just moved here and she was totally unprepared. But the rest of her class was doing it so she wanted to. She didn't pass, as i knew she wouldn't and she was upset for the weekend until she went into school on Monday and found out that only 4 children in the year had actually passed and all her friends were going to be moving with her to the local state school. Failing the 11+ isn't the end of the world.

Don't lie.. that's teaching her it's ok to when she does find out I did the grammar tests and my mum made me open the results.. if i failed then nvm, thankfully didn't but it was close. Honesty is always best and failing is part of life

The decision to make is whether to put her in for the 11+ knowing the odds and that she may not succeed. If you think she would be negatively impacted by failing then don’t put her in! But don’t lie. She has a right to know how she fares if she sits it. It’s her score. Not yours.

Deffo wouldn’t lie but your motives highlight the highly downside to 11+. My mother in her 80s still hasn’t got over it.
I let my eldest take test because everyone else was. He knew he didn’t get into grammars neither did the majority even in private school. He then worried he wouldn’t get into the non selective school we live practically within the boundary of!
My other son went to a partially selecting but non grammar. Again he had anxiety about getting in.
Both have had excellent educations as did I in an area where there was no selection. Just I didn’t have to deal with that anxiety.

I think you are coming from the right place here, what a lovely, kind, and caring mother you are. I think that you do need to tell your daughter if she doesn’t pass. She sounds wonderful, can you do something that celebrates her sensitivity and compassion before she takes the test, or that shows her how those attributes are more important than grades?

I was bullied mercilessly by my father, and children at school, when I was held back a year in junior school (aged 7). I would have loved a supportive parent like you. I now have a PhD and am a university lecturer. The school system is quite limited in what it tests. Maybe ensure that your daughter knows that there are some attributes that cannot be tested and ultimately it’s compassion that will change the world for the better, not high academic scores. Good luck x

I think you need to be honest with her. If she ever finds out you’ve lied (albeit to protect her feelings) she may wonder what else you’ve lied about. When you talk about the schools, don’t make it sound as if private is second best. If she gets into the private but not the grammar, make a big thing of how brilliant it will be. Sadly we can’t sugar-coat everything for our children and I don’t think it helps them if we do. Failure is part of life but at least she will have tried her best. Rather than plan how to soften any blow, plan how you’re going to support her to do her best by helping her practise things she finds difficult in the run-up to September. Whatever the outcome, she will find her level and end up in the school best suited to her abilities where she can flourish. Don’t worry!

I think I’d just say you did really well! Fantastic effort but maybe not outright tell her she passed because it could open a can of worms. Ie Why can’t I go to school with sister plus school might want her to do additional work to get her on same 11+ Level, which will complicate the lie.

What if her teacher mentions it? No point in lying just say try your best and we always have private school, which, tbh if I could afford I’d send my child to private school regardless! They get so many more opportunities

I think this a nice idea. It's awful that we put them through these things at such a young age.