To tell my daughter she's passed 11+ even if she doesn't?

[Incogweeto]

DD2 will take 11+ in September. She's a lovely, funny, bright child, but not as academic as DD1 who got an extremely high 11+ score and is at grammar school.

Our options here are grammar or private. State is absolutely awful (this isn't a comment on all state schools at all, just the ones we have access to which are in the failing category). I would never send her to our state options.

I've already told her that she'll sit 11+ and private school entrance tests and then we as parents will decide which one is best for her needs, and that grammar school isn't right for everyone. She really wants to go to grammar.

If she doesn't pass 11+ I'm planning on telling her she did and that we just decided to send her to the private school. Is that terrible? It will obviously involve maintaining the lie, potentially even when she's an adult if it ever comes up. There's no way she'll find out.

I think she may well pass, but if not I just don't think a 10 year old needs to be feeling that they've 'failed' at this stage. Or that they are less capable than their older sibling, which I know will hurt. DD is a really lovely, kind and caring child and in many ways more well rounded than her super academic sister. She's also sensitive and a worrier and it's the kind of thing that will affect her self esteem for years. I'd tell her she passed by a few points (not make up some super high score). She'll definitely get into the private school, no question, and be happy there.

Whatever you decide, I don't think lying is the way to go. It could cause much bigger problems later on.

IMHO you have two choices, you either ask her to decide if she wants to take the 11+ at the same time reminding her of the differences between her and her sister, and her positives, along with the benefits of going to the private school, or you don't put her forward for the 11+. If it's her decision, then she may be disappointed, but at least she'll give it a go. She'll also learn something from taking responsibility for her choices.

My younger sister wanted to go to the same school as me, and it only served to make her more jealous and to continually make comparisons. We would both have been better off at separate schools.

This is such an interesting post to me as I went to a private secondary school but at the time thought I wanted to go to the grammar but didn’t pass - however it turns out I did pass for the grammar (got in off a waiting list in the end) but my mum didn’t tell me cos she so badly wanted me to go to the private school. I have no regrets and loved the private school, but I do still remember feeling a bit betrayed by the lie when I found out.
My sister really wanted to go to my private school and was devastated when she didn’t get into that one! So I can kind of see it from both angles - I think it is very upsetting when your sibling passes and you don’t, but I also think on balance tell your daughter the truth and give her the reasons why you think one or other would be better.
The funny thing is, my mum worries now that she made the wrong choice and should have sent me to a less academic school even though I loved it - now I’m a mum myself I get what a worry everything is when you just want to do the right thing :-) I’d say do your best and tell the truth if possible.

Each of your children has their strengths. I am certain DD 2 is better at some things than academic dd1. There are hundreds of ways you can sugar the pill if she doesn’t get in without lying - not least the truth that pass boundaries change every single year. If you lie your daughter absolutely will be able to find out at some time in future ( also her sibling) which could lead to far worse consequences and feelings of betrayal. For what it’s worth I think you can completely prepare her and ease her towards this by emphasising the strengths ( and pitfalls) of each school and how they cater for differing abilities ( not better or worse) - Carol Dweck is your armour for this one ( avoiding fixed mind set). Many bright 10/11 year olds may not capitalise on their strengths or work hard if they are used to an “ easy ride” whereas many others blossom later. Lying is implying you think test results are everything/ define your Dd and her future - none of which is accurate or healthy.

As a retired teacher, I would definitely advise against lying. Children are generally very resilient and also they know which classmates have more/less ability than them. Hope for the best when she sits the test and have plan B ready and be honest with her.

Lying always ends badly and if she found out she would think YOU were ashamed about it. Why not just say, "You are taking the 11+ to see if it is the right school for you. If you pass, it means you would like it there. If you don't, you wouldn't like it, but in that case we have another lovely school in mind."
I did that with DD1 (who passed) and am doing it at the moment with DD2. She gets it.

This is not a lie about mythical gift givers or tooth takers. She’s old enough to have a conversation about education and if she thinks she passed she might wonder why she then possibly isn’t a star in her private school. Encourage her to work hard to the best of her ability and focus on her strengths so she can shine. It’s all about spin not lies.

The fact you’re even asking this question shows the crazy levels of anxiety that exist amongst parents. In real life there is disappointment . The sooner kids learn this the better. Failing to secure a place is not a failure at all if a kid works and shows up for a test. It wasn’t meant to be. In grammar schools and top private schools, you can miss out because you simply were the wrong side of a cut line but still got a high score. Parents should not try to insulate their kids from set backs and disappointments. I agree with other people who suffer could backfire if found out later. Too many parents try to protect their kids from real life problems and set backs, but your child will not learn to negotiate and manage these things in future unless you allow exposure to them. Still, DC may still pass.....

She isnt the only one who will fail so why keep it from her. madness!

No I wouldn’t lie my oldest son is exceptionally bright he’s got two younger brothers and one only 18 months between them my oldest got the highest SAT results in the year. They are both in seniors now I chose not to put my oldest through the 11+ I knew he would pass but I didn’t want my younger son to feel inferior to him so I didn’t put any of them forward.
My middle son knows my oldest is cleverer then him but he’s really creative and way more popular my oldest is jealous of his siblings friendship groups and how popular and easy going he is and my middle one is jealous of his brothers cleverness.
They both have strengths and weakness and that is life.
I know my oldest is going to uni and my middle one probably won’t go but I know he will do something equally as good like sports or maybe even construction etc
You can’t lie to your kids so what if she’s not as bright she has other strengths and abilities. I would not even put her forward for it if you know she will fail.

Don’t lie to her. Explain to her that everyone has different strengths and not passing one test doesn’t make her ‘less than’ in any way.

Learning to fail is part of life, even as kids. If she doesn't get in she'll know she needs to study harder in future. Why are you certain she'll get into private? For year 7 entry it's usually so competitive (due to numbers) that they advise keep school children not to sit the entrance test.

Don't lie to her.
These tests don't measure intelligence just being able to pass tests.

No, no, no, no, no!!!'
Don't lie.
My Daughter took the 11+ a few years ago for the only girls grammar left in our area. Over 1000 girls took the test for 86 places. It's a very, very competitive school and a place is highly coveted.
Unfortunately she didn't reach the cut off score so didn't get a place. Main reason is that I didn't tutor her as don't believe in tutoring for 11+ so she was disadvantaged before she even walked in the exam hall. Don't even get me started on that one.
I told her straight away as. I couldn't have lied to her. It was up to me as her parent to tell her in such a way that she didn't feel a failure but also to build resilience and learn that not everything is easy in life.
My Daughter took it very well, is now at a local comp and doing very well academically. She's probably forgotten all about the 11+ now

How do you know that she will get a place at the private school, surely there will also be an entrance exam as well?

@HandyGirl76

My son just failed his, it's destroyed him and he's upset about it. His school is shocked as he's very bright and academic but apparently he raced through it and finished 15 mins early so clearly doesn't yet grasp exam technique.

I digress, the system sucks and shouldn't be there. Having seen my son's reaction I would lie, lie and lie again if I could have the time over. I'm not sure he'll ever feel confident academically.

If the system sucks why did you put your son through it?

That aside, how would you keep the lie up? ‘You passed the 11+ and got into the school we wanted for you, but we have decided completely illogically not to send you there’?

It’s a recipe for disaster. This thread embodies why kids are full of neuroses and ‘anxiety’ these days.

Your kids will be upset for a few weeks, but it is up to you as parents to be honest & teach them how to cope with it. Take them for a look around their new school and buy them a little gift to say well done for trying your best. One of my siblings failed the 11+, my parents did all of the above and within a few weeks it was never even mentioned again. Can’t remember the last time we discussed it and my siblings is not permanently scarred.

Please, as a practicing Psychologist - Do not do this.

Lying is horrendous to do to a child. You need to reinforce her with other, more positive options if she does fail. If she finds out you lied through a data access request/copy of results later on in life, or even puts this incorrect information on a C.V.; it's going to blow up badly, especially for her mental health. You will make her feel as though she isn't good enough because she failed, thus you lied about it. She could find out through school, too.

You need to stop comparing them, they are not supposed to be the same academically, there is no rule. They will each have their individual strengths and you need to find hers outside of this ridiculousness. You are thinking far too much into it.

I have 3 children of my own and they are all different on the varying learning scales you use to measure a child's individual abilities for their age. Just stop.

I would feel so ashamed if I did that to my children. Find a better coping mechanism if she doesn't do well, because all that matters is she tries and she tried her hardest. Don't put pressure on her.

I think it’s not a nice thing to do our lives are mapped by how we achieve and lying to her isn’t fair to her in my opinion

If you think she is unlikely to get into the grammar school (& most parents tend to overestimate their children's academic achievement so your assessment is probably right) I would just let her do the private school test only and send her there. Less pressure and no lying. You are planning to say that you will make the decision which school is best for her anyway so you might as well tell her without needless testing you think she will fail at.

You can’t tell her she got in but can’t go !
I’m guessing the private school is non selective ? She will most prob get into the Grammar school if they have a sibling policy and they may take her fir potential

I don't think it is a good idea to lie to her, otherwise she may wonder why you are stopping her from having a say in what school she goes to and it may backfire later if she finds out. A headteacher family friend of ours used to say that some children were just too creative in their thinking for grammar school. Focus on her strengths instead and choose a school that reflects those.

I didn't know that there was now such a thing a 11x I sat it twice failed both times glad I didn't want to go to the snobby grammar school, even my clever sister didn't pass

rule one don't lie the children
rule two see rule one.

academic skills are not the be all and end all. Why don't you start teaching your daughter the better lesson that is is valued just as she is?

My DC1 got into a high achieving, massively oversubscribed comp that selects 10% of intake on the result of a Maths test. Three years later DC2 got almost exactly the same mark in the maths test , but many more children happened to sit the test that year and the pass-mark/threshold was raised. DC2 had to go to a different school (and yes, you've guessed it, DC2 got much stronger GCSE and A Level results than DC1). If 11+ works similarly though, could you say something like 'you did really well, but it's a year where lots of people did really well and so the mark needed for entrance this year is higher than for DD1's year? Just removing the comparison with her sister and allowing her to move on with dignity? And, if she's into sport, art or drama, the facilities at private school are usually outstanding compared to state so would focus all my excitement there. Good luck to your DD!

PS when i was a child, everybody did the 11+. My parents encouraged us all to do our best but after the exam, we were taken out for a special meal (yes I know not now) to say to us well done for facing a hard day and doing our best

So glad Wales got rid of these stupid tests years ago. 10yo is too young to have so much pressure put upon them and to be stratified into 'the clever ones' and 'the dull ones'. I was a nightmare in primary school and almost certainly wouldn't have passed the 11+ if I'd had to sit it. Not that I wasn't capable of it, just that, at that age I just couldn't be arsed with academic work and I'd much rather go out to play with my friends. And yet, as soon as I was in High School I matured quickly and ended up leaving with 12 GCSEs, 4 A levels and a scholarship. I also graduated top of my year with a first class honours degree at University.

All kids should have equal access to education and be given the same opportunities to succeed